5 Point Harness? Or?

[ActionGuy]

Hello,

A recent new owner of the FiST. Taut little machine...

I ended up getting the non-Recaro seats and noticed that you get pulled out of the seat easily. Wondering if there are applications to keep you in your seat-5 point harness, etc? And doesn't use a roll bar.

Thanks

 

[RAAMaudio]

I would never use a 5 point without a roll bar, some use a harness bar but you are at risk in a roll over of a broken neck, crushed spine, etc...besides you cannot use one with a stock seat unless you cut a hole in it.

The only harness I will use on the street is the Schroth 3 or 4 point but some organizations will not let you use them on track though they should if properly installed.

CG lock is a low cost way to lock your stock seat belts but you can do so with a method of moving the seat back, holding one section, moving forward, I forget the exact method but it has been posted dozens of times on my forums.

 

[Tex ST-AR]

I had a Schroth in my Subaru RS loved it for autocross. When you are buckled in your planted to the seat. But I would get lazy and not always buckle up before driving to the store. So that is the only drawback.

 

[ActionGuy]

Thank you gentlemen! That's good feedback...

 

[ActionGuy]

That CG Lock will work just fine...

 

[DHM1]

I would never use a 5 point without a roll bar, some use a harness bar but you are at risk in a roll over of a broken neck, crushed spine, etc...besides you cannot use one with a stock seat unless you cut a hole in it.

The only harness I will use on the street is the Schroth 3 or 4 point but some organizations will not let you use them on track though they should if properly installed.

CG lock is a low cost way to lock your stock seat belts but you can do so with a method of moving the seat back, holding one section, moving forward, I forget the exact method but it has been posted dozens of times on my forums.

What if someone made a nice 4 point bolt in or weld in cage?

Russ

 

[RAAMaudio]

Drag racing rules can be pretty different that road racing and even autocross rules so one must study the standards of the organization they plan to participate with.

Taken from a road race perspective and understanding of most all if not all sanctioning body rules, some differences do show up. I have read all the rules and built my own roll cages, sometimes difficult to design to fit every set of rules.

I take safely very seriously but also know and take calculated risks but sometimes just have to accept it as it is.

1) No roll bar. Most do not allow any harness but stock but I have seen cars on track with a harness bar and race harnesses but that should not be mixed with reclining seats and usually not allowed. Reclining seats are designed to break towards the rear under the right load to protect you, a harness or roll bar there might do the opposite.

2) A proper roll bar, or cage. 4 point being minimum, DOM tubing, harness bar, diagonal bar, required, 5 or 6 point harness is usually required with actual race seats) (there may be an exception with some sanctioning bodies, and some may allow stock or reclining aftermarket seats, not a good idea usually unless you make a part to hold up the seat back in a heavy crash)

3) Track day events. Stock harnesses allowed nearly always with no roll bar. Roll over protection is required for most soft top cars but sometimes not, I had a very fast Vette modded for such use but no proper roll bar was available and making my own would of required massive chopping up the car to make a real one. I would not track that car without it so I sadly parted it out and traded towards something I could use, a new dually to tow my trailer.

4)Nice option if allowed for stock and race seats or reclining aftermarket seats which some think are race seats but they are not. I really like the Schrotch 4 point DOT approved harness, it has a section on one shoulder strap that comes apart to make it longer, twisting your body slightly and preventing sliding under in a frontal but lets you slide under in a roll over without a roll bar.

I had two "quick fit E36" BMW ones but could not use them for HPDE and TT events in NASA due to being labeled for E36 BMW even though it was easy to make them fit the ST....I sold them and now looking for another option as with hauling two big dogs in our car I do not want a roll bar in it. I have looked into making one that is pretty easy to remove, it would be bolted to welded in real gussets if I do so.

I could leave the Schroths in the car and use the stock ones for running errands or I could remove them in a couple of minutes, a very nice solution to safety and convenience.

NOTE: For some really odd reason there are bolt in roll bars allowed on track that simply bolt in to sheet metal and can be more dangerous than not having it. I really do not understand this as road racing rules are generally the highest standard ones there are.
Be careful of any bolt in bar or cage, make sure it really will protect you.

NOTE 2: Modern cars have very solid roll over structures built in, less so than some with sunroofs, far better than older cars ever have. I have seem some pretty serious roll overs with the roofs not flattened much but I have seen some that were fatal as well. I am taking a chance on my sunroof car when tracking it the way it is, stock, as we all are just daily driving a tiny car as well but at least it is nimble and gives us a chance, most of the time, to avoid most anything if we pay attention.

NOTE 3: IF you have a roll bar, cage, etc, you must pad it very very well if you ever drive without a helmet especially so. There is a dual density pad I used on the one caged car I ever street drove and the bar was far above my head and to the rear as far as I could go and I used either my race harnesses or Schroth for longer drives. We can stretch and move around inside the cabin far more than it seems in the right type of accident and striking a roll bar can and has been fatal or just brain dead results.

Any questions, recommendations, corrections, post away, the rules are easy enough to look up but I will help if needed

Rick

 

[RAAMaudio]

The CG lock is what I may end up using, I have read of cases of it scrufing up the stock belts a bit so watch for that.

I have also heard of an approved 4 point harness for no roll bar, stock seats, other than the Schroth I am going to look more into but I have not found any leads on it yet.

 

[mscuil]

The CG lock is what I may end up using, I have read of cases of it scrufing up the stock belts a bit so watch for that.

I have also heard of an approved 4 point harness for no roll bar, stock seats, other than the Schroth I am going to look more into but I have not found any leads on it yet.

Have you found anything else on that 4 point? May I ask what you ended up going with?

I did find this in a Focus forum(http://fordstnation.com/focus-st-interior/2806-schroth-quick-fit-harness-installed-pic-4.html);

"I decided to take the status of the quick fit belts to the HMS Motorsports Facebook page. This was their response: "Thanks for contacting us. The Focus St Quick Fit is in its final stage of development. We just need a final sign off from Germany. Expect it to hit the market before the new year. Thanks"

 

[Ebonflow]

This is what I'm running. Took a little while to make it as safe as it is (although not perfect), but very supportive.

 

[Plainrt]

Added schroth 4 point other day. This is just for autocross use. It's nice cause can hide a under front seat and unclip rear and tuck in rear seat and be out of sight.

 

[Tex ST-AR]

What if someone made a nice 4 point bolt in or weld in cage?

Russ

Someone should release a chassis/harness bar it could tie in at the b pilar runnin down to a second bar that is contoured to the flood.

 

[LT Berzerker]

Mounting points?

 

[RAAMaudio]

Problem:
Most if not all sanctioning bodies will not allow a harness bar and harnesses on a race track due to the inherent roll over dangers of such a setup. BUT, most modern cars can handle a roll over far better than in the past but not always as much as could be needed in some circumstances.

Solution:

Schroth to make their very safe 4 point system for our car specifically as it would be allowed. Their system is the only one I have and will use on the track without a roll bar. It is designed to allow you to slide down and prevent massive compression of the spine in a roll over yet keep you from slipping down in a frontal impact.

I installed a set from a BMW I had on hand only to find out I could not use them in NASA events which I mostly run just because they were labeled for BMW and no other reason.

They are also the only DOT aftermarket belts made which means if you make sure to do everything right, your insurance company cannot refuse to cover a claim.

 

[BRGT350]

I have used Schroth 4-point harnesses in a number of different cars for years. For a street car, it is the only way to go. Takata also makes a 4-point harness that is based on the same ASM technology that Schroth uses. As I get older and wiser, the more I see no reason to modify the safety restraint system in a daily driven car. When I was younger, I installed a set of fixed back race seats and a 5-point harness. It wasn't very smart since the car didn't have a roll cage and was a huge PITA to live with on a daily driven car. I won't go down that route again.

Schroth and now Takata (Sparco makes a set too, but don't have the ASM feature) are the best options for those who want something extra to hold them into the seat, besides the CG lock.

 

[Hijinx]

Silly question, but let's say you have a Schroth 4-point. Is it ok for daily use? What do you do with the oem 3-point? Plug it in and sit on it?

 

[Plainrt]

I throw my schroth under seat when not in use for autocross etc. I shut off seatbelt chime so don't have to hear at events. Very simple install and easy to hide it all when not in use.

 

[Hijinx]

I did not know you could turn the chime off. I assumed there was a way, since there's always a way, but you said it like it was easy. How does one go about this?

NVM- I used the search button.

Did a little digging, and here's what I found. Let me know if it works for you.


As for the Safety Belt chime, there are 2 different ones.
The first is the safety belt warning light and indicator chime. It's described as "If the driver's safety belt is not buckled before the ignition switch is turned to the on position, then the safety belt warning light illuminates 1- 2 minutes and the warning chime sounds 4-8 seconds." From what I can see, there is no disable for this.
The second is the Safety Belt Minder. "This feature supplements the safety belt warning function by providing additional reminders by intermittently sounding a chime and illuminating the safety belt warning light when the driver's or front passenger's seat is occupied and the safety belt is unbuckled."

The system can be deactivated or activated by performing the following procedure:
Before following the procedure, make sure that:
• the parking brake is set
• the transmission selector lever is in position P (automatic transmission) or N (manual transmission)
• the ignition is off
• the driver and front passenger safety belts are unbuckled.
1. Turn the ignition on. Do not start the vehicle.
2. Wait until the safety belt warning light turns off (about one minute). After Step 2, wait an additional five seconds before proceeding with Step 3. Once Step 3 is started, the procedure must be completed within 30 seconds.
3. For the seating position being disabled, buckle then unbuckle the safety belt three times at a moderate speed, ending in the unbuckled state. After Step 3, the safety belt warning light will turn on.
4. While the safety belt warning light is on, buckle and then unbuckle the safety belt. After Step 4, the safety belt warning light will flash for confirmation.
• This will disable the feature for that seating position if it is currently enabled.
• This will enable the feature for that seating position if it is currently disabled.

The window information can be found on page 72, and the safety belt info is on pages 30-32 of your Owner Manual. You can find it online here: Owner Guide Page

Meagan

 

[RAAMaudio]

I did not know Takata makes one like the Schroth, cool.

I will see if I can get away with running one at NASA HPDE and TT events, would love to instead of a stock harness.

I agree, fixed back seats, harnesses, no roll bar, not safe, not smart, and they are a pain in the arse to get into and out of on a daily basis.

Thanks for posting
Rick

 

[meFiSTo]

Hmmm. I would never put in any kind of 4-, 5-, or 6-point harness setup in a car without at least a welded-in 4-point roll bar, racing seats, etc. (and most lapping groups around here prohibit 4-point harnesses due to an alleged potential submarining problem).

With the stock safety setup (airbags, 3-point seat belts), I've found that I can do the autocross style seat-locking technique (roll seat back all the way, lean back, tighten and jerk the seat belt, raise up the seat back and slide the seat forward) to keep me nicely cinched at a track day. It's a little bit of a PITA and can come lose if not done right. A CG Lock might be the way to go. I had some, then sold them when I had my old car -- due to the 6-point welded in cage, airbag delete, racing wheel, and 6-point Schroth harnesses. Might have to get them again. They're pretty cheap and easier than the contortionist thing (I have to use my heel to slide the seat forward once I am locked in doing the autocross process). But: CG Locks do wear down the seat belts a little bit at the attachment point over time.