5 Point Harness? Or?

[Plainrt]

I don't see issue with using the schroth for autocross. Nothing like doing autocross moving around in seat entire time. I have used cg locks in past and while they work pretty good if rather use a 4 point. How many rollovers see happen during autocross ?

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have spent a lot of time considering the way to be as safe as I could on the street and on the track all the way from no seat belt cars to seat belt without shoulder belt only cars back in the 60's and early 70's to building race cars with a huge amount of safely features built in.

The Schroth and now maybe the Takata has a section on one of the shoulder straps that breaks away during a frontal impact, just enough to cause a slight twist that prevents you from sliding under the belt. In a roll over it lets you slide like a stock seat belt.

Scroth was and maybe still is the only DOT approved 4 point harness manufacturer.

I have never heard of anybody getting hurt in one due to the design.

Of course it is better to have a proper roll bar and real harness.

Not talking about some bolt into sheet metal like some use and allowed on track...never understood that nonsense!

Or a harness bar, they are not safe for anything, well proven info is easy to dig up.

But, when you cannot fit a roll bar and only have one car you can take then the Schroth is better than stock in several ways.

Until I see real reports, or any at all, of an issue with them I will use one when I can

Unfortunately I had a set of BMW E36 specific ones I spent the time making work in the FiST only to find not allowed by NASA and have found no reason for it but perhaps just to ensure not improperly installed which of course I did it well.

I am going to look into running a none BMW specific setup and hope I can, sure safer on track than a stock seat belt, we loose a few drivers every year in stock belts.

Rick

 

[meFiSTo]

I guess I agree with both you guys on the Schroth 4-point product. I'm just not familiar with them and wonder if the local kids would distinguish them from any other 4-pointers.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am going to do more research as I really want to run a safer setup than stock belts but not a roll bar. I could built one but it just does not work well with the setup for the car the way I need to use it, two big dogs in the back seat area with a smaller and secured cargo area for groceries in back.

I might have to adjust my plans and put in a roll bar and move the dogs back but I wanted them forward for their safety in case rear ended. I still have to work out a net between us the them in case of frontal impact, two 95 lb dobs, Akita and smallest Irish Wolfhound would not feel great smacking us.

If I cannot find any reason other than a blanket policy against 4 point belts I will make an appeal based on the Schroths, none vehicle specific model, being DOT approved, to be allowed as far safer than stock belts. Just a few years ago a very seasoned HPDE driver and instructor was kicked when he came partially out of a Mini when he went off and rolled over, it would not of happened in the Scroth's.

I have found many illogical rules over the years in racing and seen seriously fast, big bucks race cars with barely adequate cages that I even spoke to one team in particular and it was adding weight and not being competitive or live with a less than great cage, stupid stuff and that was FIA!

 

[meFiSTo]

I found the Schroth 4-point ASM info. Does that solution have some kind of accommodation about keeping your head from being held in place. I'm thinking about a rollover situation with no cage. I am also wary of a strapped in situation with a helmet and no HANS device. I do get the problem of potentially partially popping out of a car (a local heart surgeon basically lost his career several years ago when he popped out a little from his NSX and crushed his hand). Tragic.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am not a big fan of the HANS system, there are better, when I was building a really nuts full race Vette I bought a $1300 system that does far more.

Now you can get the NexGen for a very good price, it does more than a HANS as well, I will have to see if it can worth with the Schroth, some units are setup for narrow belts.

I will have to look and see what is the best way to go but for those using a stock harness at least if not NexGen there is at least one unit that is for karting that might work and maybe something else.

------------

Terrible what happened to the surgeon.

Anybody without arm restraints could have that happen, no matter what harness, etc....need to have a window net as well, which I might just do.

 

[meFiSTo]

Just noticed that Schroth has a Fiesta ST specific 4-point Quick Fit (with ASM tech) solution. I'm going to check with our local sanctioning folks to see if they'll take this.

https://www.schrothracing.com/tuning/quick-fit-pro/mustang-quick-fit-pro

Update 10-25-15

So far so good, two of the principal groups I'd recreational lap with here locally are good to go with the Schroth 4-point products. One is still doing a little investigating. I wouldn't go out with either BMW or PCA, so I don't need to worry about their rules.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Looks like my retirement account may take another hit, checking the rules on these right away!

Thanks
Rick

 

[PhoenixM3]

Problem:
Most if not all sanctioning bodies will not allow a harness bar and harnesses on a race track due to the inherent roll over dangers of such a setup. BUT, most modern cars can handle a roll over far better than in the past but not always as much as could be needed in some circumstances.

Solution:

Schroth to make their very safe 4 point system for our car specifically as it would be allowed. Their system is the only one I have and will use on the track without a roll bar. It is designed to allow you to slide down and prevent massive compression of the spine in a roll over yet keep you from slipping down in a frontal impact.

I installed a set from a BMW I had on hand only to find out I could not use them in NASA events which I mostly run just because they were labeled for BMW and no other reason.

They are also the only DOT aftermarket belts made which means if you make sure to do everything right, your insurance company cannot refuse to cover a claim.

Used this setup in my E46 M3 for autocross and it was great. Looking to see if I can get a harness to clip in/clip out of my Shelby and the FiST

 

[RAAMaudio]

The set I had was for an E36, I bought the right parts to match the different buckles, made them work exactly the same, put them in the FiST, very easy to just leave them in and use the regular belts, not hard to remove or just release the rear buckle so my dogs fit better....then found out I could not use them...

I have always ended up with the same harnesses for both front seats and have ran with many different orgs and most require the same protection for the passenger and new orgs usually require at least one session with their instructor, I like to give rides on occasion as well of course, unless they scream to much

I have to buy two sets, sucks as I had a perfectly good pair I sold for $300 shipped and now have to more than double it to get basically the same thing, if allowed to use them which of course I will get them if so.

Until then, even on 225 slicks, BBK on race pads, etc...the stock seats and belts are not to bad as I sit very close and use the dead pedal, etc, to get all the leverage and control I can but the harnesses make the day much less tiring, trim some lap time off, add more safety in the design and in less fatigue and better car control.