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Audible knock at medium/ high load at low rpm

OP
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JPGC

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Thread Starter #41
I got my new 93 octane tune and my tune updated for E20 yesterday and I spent 3 hours testing both out this morning. First was the 93 as I had to empty my gas tank of E20 then fill up with 93 to verify it. Ran awesome, no negative corrections or knock anywhere. I ran this for 60 miles, then filled up with e85 which was 1.95 gallons. The e20 tune felt great with no issues as well. The e20 was not optimized for power, just to use if necessary. I confirmed with Justin for an e30 tune and will do that soon. My v-dyno numbers from this were 215 WHP and 266 WTQ. This is a safe set of tunes that makes good power. A big thanks to Justin at Freektune. Can't wait to start tuning for the e30!
 


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#42
I had some questionable 93 gas on my last tank and with the addition on a new 93 tune from Randy's at Mountune I was having some negative timing/knock issues. I went and put 1 gal of E85 which came out to a an E18 mix given the 10 to 1 mix. That immediately cleared up any knock and never saw timing drop below 0. Not to mention the power was awesome!!!! I switched one of the monitors to watch the AFR and it was still going plenty rich 11.5:1 at full throttle so the fuel system has no trouble compensating for an E18 mix. I would really like to try an E30 tune, but the only thing I've found locally is straight e85. I've got one other local station which might have premixed so I need to check before pursuing the E30 tune.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #43
I had some questionable 93 gas on my last tank and with the addition on a new 93 tune from Randy's at Mountune I was having some negative timing/knock issues. I went and put 1 gal of E85 which came out to a an E18 mix given the 10 to 1 mix. That immediately cleared up any knock and never saw timing drop below 0. Not to mention the power was awesome!!!! I switched one of the monitors to watch the AFR and it was still going plenty rich 11.5:1 at full throttle so the fuel system has no trouble compensating for an E18 mix. I would really like to try an E30 tune, but the only thing I've found locally is straight e85. I've got one other local station which might have premixed so I need to check before pursuing the E30 tune.
It's better to mix it yourself as most stations that I've seen that have a premixed pump mix the E85 with 87 or 89 octane petrol. I'm currently waiting on my ethenol sensor, guage, connectors and hoses so I can see what is exactly in my tank. Once I get that installed, I'm gonna tune for e30.
 


Sourskittle

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#44
That's an expensive setup, but it is awesome !!!

Even 1 gal of E85 to a full tank of 93oct would do wonders.

A $10 can of torchco or what ever it is, is like 16oz ? 32oz tops? As a ratio, think about what POSSIBLY could be in that can to up an octane rating THAT MUCH.... Now realize that the TRUE octane rating of ethanol has been rumored to be around 160oct. Now factor in the FACT of 128oz/ 1gal to a full tank vs 16/32oz of torcho and $2.50 per gal vs $40 per gal ?

Doesn't take long to realize that E85 is likely a better option, as well as cheaper.

Not saying that some cars are not helped a bunch by torcho or that is doesn't work at all... Just saying... Volume for volume, $ for $, I'm not sure anything is even in the realm of E85.

Hope you post a short video of the new hardware in action. Just a really cool setup.

Also, because none of the stock fuel lines are perminately cut, it can go back to stock quickly and easily. Assuming you have a dealer that is willing to actually do more than rotate the tires on the car if it breaks.
 


RAAMaudio

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#45
E85 is the way to go, if you can get it, if not Torco does work at least up to a point, we added around 16WHP with it over 91 Octane but as soon as put in E30 we had much more timing to work with.

I tried the Torco first because it is a 200 mile round trip to get E85 for me, I brought home 20 gallons to work with so I do not have to go get more soon.

With all I have read about the varying amounts of alcohol in E85 and pump gas I would be careful in how far you push the tune on E30, etc, unless you can verify just what the real ratio is.

I am going to order more Torco just to carry around in my truck when hauling the car all over to track events just in case I cannot get E85 in some places or get some knock etc....
 


OP
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Thread Starter #46
That's an expensive setup, but it is awesome !!!

Even 1 gal of E85 to a full tank of 93oct would do wonders.

A $10 can of torchco or what ever it is, is like 16oz ? 32oz tops? As a ratio, think about what POSSIBLY could be in that can to up an octane rating THAT MUCH.... Now realize that the TRUE octane rating of ethanol has been rumored to be around 160oct. Now factor in the FACT of 128oz/ 1gal to a full tank vs 16/32oz of torcho and $2.50 per gal vs $40 per gal ?

Doesn't take long to realize that E85 is likely a better option, as well as cheaper.

Not saying that some cars are not helped a bunch by torcho or that is doesn't work at all... Just saying... Volume for volume, $ for $, I'm not sure anything is even in the realm of E85.

Hope you post a short video of the new hardware in action. Just a really cool setup.

Also, because none of the stock fuel lines are perminately cut, it can go back to stock quickly and easily. Assuming you have a dealer that is willing to actually do more than rotate the tires on the car if it breaks.
It was kind of pricey since I went with the entire Zeitronix ECA 2 setup and the rest based on razorlab's guide. I got the kit on sale at $320 shipped vice $379. The ECA 2 kit also has an external voltage output along with the guage for future technical upgrades. I will definitely do a video on it. Hopefully I can make the Central Florida ST. Meet on Jan 4 and already have it installed. You can check it out if you are there.
 


Sourskittle

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#47
I verify the ethanol content via my fuel trim. If I put in appox E30 and put the setting jn for E30 and the fuel trim stays at 0-3%, then I know I'm at E30. If I do the samething and the fuel trim says "+7% " I simply adjust the stoich setting more towards the Ethanol being greater. If I set it to the E30 setting and the STFT says "-6%", then I change the Stoich more towards the higher gas content and i know I'm not at E30.

I error on the side of more ethanol than gasoline. I can simply stop at any fuel station and add .5-2gal if the ethanol content is too high. If the gas content is too high, I have to tap into my extra 5gal tank that I keep at home, but I never run "too much gasoline".

Its a little bit of math. But at least its fairly easy. I generally work off of 4gal of E85 to a full tank of 93oct.

With the map switching in access tuner, its epicly easy after you do it once or twice.

If I'm running a new mix ( more or less than 4gal Eth per tank ), I'll give it my best guess at map #3. Then if I guessed high, I simply switch to map #2. If that still isn't enough, i switch to map #1.

Once I get the stoich setting, I lock it in across all 5 map slots reflash and carry on like nothing is new ( assuming the tune permits the same timing/boost ).

My way is almost $300 cheaper and just as accurate, if not more so since your actually seeing what the car is currently doing on the fuel in your tank. That being said, if you knew basically what the real content was right off the hit, then you could avoid this simple, but sometimes cumbersome step.

If you never change your mix... Like generally never leave my 4gal per tank of eth vs the rest being 93oct then its gonna be about the same.

The system can swing 30% in ethanol direction or 30% in the gasoline direction in real time. So 5-7% isn't going to sink the boat, the idea is just to be as accurate as you can for the ECU, so that it doesn't have to put forth as much effort to change the fueling for you based on other calculations and inputs, which by nature have a bit of built in flaw-ing ( but are pretty dang awesome still ).

Also when you guys are pumping E85 at the station, keep in mind your fuel system holds a good bit of fuel. Its not like the second you start the engine its going to be running a perfect mix of the fuel in the tank. It may take a second for the high Eth fuel to reach the cylinders, and it may even take a bit for the mixture to reach its end E30-type number.

IE: you may start your engine on 93 oct, then it will suck almost pure E85 from the bottom of your tank, the finally the fuel will mix and you'll start to get the correct mix for that tank. It happens fairly quick, just be aware. I baby the car for the first mile or two ( after I idle the car for a couple seconds and see the STFT going "holy crap". Then I drive real soft for about 1-2 miles. Then I watch the stft at idle to see where I'm at.

In text, it prob sounds like a lot. It maybe for the first time. Just remember how easy sex is now, and how complicated it seemed when you were 15... By the 3rd tank of E30, you'll be an expert :)
 


OP
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Thread Starter #48
I see what your saying and I definitely take it easy for the first five minutes or so. I just don't want to have to be making adjustments all of the time, lol. My ultimate goal, once I get the guage installed is to get my E30 tune with Justine at Freektune done, the have my accessport switching set up for E10' E20 and E30 to switch on the fly, based on my guage readout. Then I plan to start playing with my own tuning. I also want to be able to verify the ethenol percentage coming out of the pump at the gas station.
I too am quite a ways from the E85 station that I use (40 miles), so I will be switching back and forth...which the guage will be very helpful with this.
 


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Thread Starter #49
The guage will also help me verify the ethenol percentage coming out of the pump at the gas station.
 


RAAMaudio

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#51
Good to see it can be done without the gauge, a bit more effort and keeping on top of it but once you are used to it not so bad.

---------------

I get what sounds like knock but just never sure, I think I better log it. When I come off the highway from a tuning run having already put on a few miles of cruising then pull to a stop, turn, 1st gear, just light throttle. It sounds like it knocks but I was thinking it was one of my custom parts touching I had not sorted out yet but now that everything is buttoned down well it is still there so I will log it as soon as the weather clears up and I go make another tuning run.
 




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