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AWD conversion

jeffreylyon

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#62
Been talking about this with a friend for a little while now!
These guys have been trying to pop a product for a while but have gone quiet: https://orbisdriven.com. They had a Civic Type R fitted with a pair of their wheels in the back but, if I'm remembering correctly, never let anyone take it for a test drive. The site looks pretty vaporous.

I can't see how the significant extra weight and difficult integration with the ICE powertrain is worth the trouble. If you really don't care about sprung and unsprung weight dump the whole ICE powertrain and replace it with a bunch of batteries and 4 of the Orbis wheels (if they really exist). You're probably looking at > $30,000 and a <100 mile range.
 


rallytaff

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#63
If you guy's haven't already seen it, check out "Project Binky" on YouTube. These two guys built a 4wd Mini from scratch using Toyota parts. Great humour and even better imagination and workmanship building it! Incredible to see parts they fabricated!
 


dhminer

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#64
These guys have been trying to pop a product for a while but have gone quiet: https://orbisdriven.com. They had a Civic Type R fitted with a pair of their wheels in the back but, if I'm remembering correctly, never let anyone take it for a test drive. The site looks pretty vaporous.

I can't see how the significant extra weight and difficult integration with the ICE powertrain is worth the trouble. If you really don't care about sprung and unsprung weight dump the whole ICE powertrain and replace it with a bunch of batteries and 4 of the Orbis wheels (if they really exist). You're probably looking at > $30,000 and a <100 mile range.
Awesome concept and if they've figured out how to integrate it properly with the ICE. Looks like a concept that they have no clue how to execute based on the site lol
 


jeffreylyon

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#66
Awesome concept and if they've figured out how to integrate it properly with the ICE. Looks like a concept that they have no clue how to execute based on the site lol
I believe that they've pivoted from performance to offer more efficiency for ICE retrofits. That market has, maybe, two years of life left in it; it makes way more sense just to buy a new EV. If the company isn't a zombie, it will be, soon.

Like it or not, we're close to the eve of the end of the performance ICE car. There will be a generation or two of hybrids and we're not quite there with the capacity/weight ratio with current batteries but I'd bet a case of Everyday Haze that we're within 5 years of the last new pure-ICE powertrain. Hybrids will be around while the charging infrastructure is built and as long as it takes 45 minutes to charge, but solutions for both are in the works.
 


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#67
There is word among the hot rod community in the Detroit area that there are two Fiesta's running around with modified Focus RS powertrains and one is a Hellcat Hunter. As I've never seen one in the flesh it's all hearsay to me. However if I ever do hit it really big in the Lottery Rousch Racing will get tasked with building 10 of them just for me. BTW, that probably won't happen, last time I bought a ticket was about 2 years ago and I'm still mad at myself for wasting that 10 dollars.
 


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#68
Adam at Tune+ is working on an AWD Fiesta already, but he seems to have that project on the back burner given the massive influx of new clients doing business with his firm. I already have multiple other cars, and I have decided that I don't want to sell my FiST. Rather, I'm looking to put an Evo IX transmission and differential to dangle off our cars so we can have WRC replicas rolling around on the street. The track width will be much wider than our cars, and I plan on installing the KROTOV kit to house the system once I figure out the subframe and transmission fitment. (Similar to the GR Yaris using the FWD-biased C-HR's drivetrain.)

I'll be starting with an Ecosport crossmember, along with the provided control arms/trailing arms and knuckles. There is a substantial height difference in addition to having different attachment points, but I do plan on cutting up the Ecosport's parts pretty well in order to make it fit. Once I have semi-accurate dimensions, I'm having a Polish company fabricate me a one-off tubular rear subframe to bolt into the Fiesta. I'll also be relocating the gas tank to the trunk and using the Ecosport 2.0's exhaust in order for the driveshaft(s) to fit.

I've been looking for any details of any Fiesta in the world running a street-spec AWD system. Either all of the owners are ninjas and refuse to discuss their builds, or simply no one has attempted it yet because of how new are cars still are. I mean, Honda fanboys only started getting into AWD swaps around 15 years ago using their [at-the-time] 15-year-old cars. There's still plenty of life left for our cars.
 


Dialcaliper

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#71
Does anyone have access to the 2018 service media that dealerships use so that we could see how Ford attaches the crossmember to the Ecosport 2.0?
No, but I came across this interesting video with slightly annoying narrator that basically goes over everything underneath the EcoSport AWD in detail.

View: https://youtu.be/1s2hiKMoX60


the good news: The FWD EcoSport uses identical front and rear subframe/rear torsion beam suspension as the Fiesta. The AWD rear suspension appears to use a pair of independent trailing arms that use the same bushing pickup points as the torsion axle, and the same spring and shock placement. The driveshaft appears to run essentially where the exhaust tunnel is, and the exhaust is hung lower and off to the side

The bad news: The diff carrier is essentially mounted under the car where the FWD gas tank and evap canister are, and the gas tank is shifter forward to where the torsion beam would be, and the main sump hangs down on the driver’s side. The trailing arms are stabilized by a pair of links from the diff carrier frame.

It does like like it might be a straightforward swap if you were also able to fit the AWD gas tank, and mount the diff frame to the underbody (which might well use some
of the gas tank mounting points)

The other bad news is that the Ecosport appears to use a nominally FWD system that’s fairly common these days, meaning there’s a transfer case up front, but no center diff - the rear axle is engaged on demand by a small electronic clutch pack at the rear diff.

The upside of these systems is that they are less expensive and more compact to package. The downside is that with no diff the power/torque to the rear axle is limited to a finite value, to produce up to a 50/50 torque split.

Basically this means that the it can shunt roughly half of the torque from its 166hp/150ft-lb 2.0L engine through the clutch pack to the rear axle - this essentially means the rear axle is only sized to put down ~83hp/75 ft-lbs to the ground (in first gear), or roughly 70whp

What does that mean? If you somehow managed to mate the (8-spd aut) transmission to the Fiesta engine, extra power/torque from any tuning you do will only really help the front axle from a dig. For the stock Fiesta ST engine at 180 whp, that means a maximum of a 60/40 F/R torque split. Tuned to 300whp, you’re still only getting 70 to the rear wheels (75/25 F/R) Even if you could manually force the clutch pack to force it to engage the rear diff, it would likely start slipping.

An extra 70hp to the ground is not nothing, but it is quite limited compared to a “real” center diff AWD system like that in the Focus RS, and according to the spec sheet, you’re looking at an extra 280 lb weight penalty (+10%), plus higher drivetrain loss to spin the extra shafts/transfer case, at which point you’re almost back to break even. The only good news is that with the clutch pack after the transmission, the torque split improves slightly at higher gears, but past 3rd or 4th it’s not going to make that much difference.

it would be a cool project, and maybe avoid a lot of custom fab work, but the practical benefits my not be worth it. I would guess
 


Last edited:

TyphoonFiST

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#72
This is just a pipe dream....None of this will ever come to fruition without TONS of money to waste* If you want an AWD fomoco product go buy a Rs.
 


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#73
This is just a pipe dream....None of this will ever come to fruition without TONS of money to waste* If you want an AWD fomoco product go buy a Rs.
I've taken note of your pessimism throughout this thread, and I have decided to pose a question to you: Why can't one of us [forum members] decide to take the plunge on behalf of the rest of us? I am comfortable with the fact that I'll more than likely be spending tens of thousands of dollars on this endeavor so that future owners don't have to. We could either put our heads together and innovate, or we can just give up because "it's pointless, and you should just go buy a FoRS."

I'm not asking for another member to try it out. I have garage space with room for a jig, and I have a phone in which I can film YouTube videos to share my shortcomings with everyone here. Getting an idea of how to Ecosport 2.0 crossmember attaches to the chassis gives us an idea of how we might be able to attach it to our cars. Will there be cutting/drilling/tapping required to get the dimensions of a prototype, in addition to having a mechanical engineer utilize the geometry and attachment points to develop a one-off subframe? You bet.

As for the differentials/driveshaft/transmission from the Ecosport, those parts definitely aren't made to hold any serious power. I've thought of using a non-pump-actuated AWD system that can handle tons of power without significant modification: Lancer Evolution, WRX STi, MazdaSpeed6, Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, etc. Out of all that I listed, I prefer the Evo's drivetrain, so therefore I'll be using it as the baseline to knowing how the rear subframe will be constructed in the final stages. No one has to like my idea, but criticism is always welcomed!
 


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#74
This is just a pipe dream....None of this will ever come to fruition without TONS of money to waste* If you want an AWD fomoco product go buy a Rs.
With that attitude, no one would ever have dreamt of having a Subaru's engine in their old VWs, have made adapter plates to bolt on the VWs transmission and then no one would have take the plunge to make reverse pinion and gear to integrate complete subaru engine/transmission to be able to withstand high hp builds. I'm really thankful that it's now pretty common, the kinks are pretty much all found out and that's my second car project right now!
 


rallytaff

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#75
Why an Evo platform? Don't the clutches need to be replaced if you've been doing serious acceleration runs which means that you'll be replacing your clutch very often! Just what I heard from a previous Evo owner.
 


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#77
Why an Evo platform? Don't the clutches need to be replaced if you've been doing serious acceleration runs which means that you'll be replacing your clutch very often! Just what I heard from a previous Evo owner.
Yes, the Lancer Evolution eats through clutches like no tomorrow! The owners that are pushing serious horsepower all use Tilton Carbon/Carbon Clutch Assemblies. I already plan on having a one-off clutch and flywheel assembly made for me by a local racing transmission shop here in the DFW area. This is one of the areas that’s really going to hurt the wallet unfortunately, as I’m looking at spending in excess of $8,000 just for the assembly by itself.
 


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#78
Maybe someone can buy a wrecked rally car and use the drivetrain off that?
Unfortunately, the rally cars are out of reach for most of us. There aren’t a whole lot of them made, and scarcity always drives up the price of things, especially since most of those cars have the coveted M-Sport body kit that everyone lusts after. Not to mention, most of the WRC Mk7.5 Fiestas all have modified floor pans to accommodate a straight-through exhaust and beefy one-piece driveshaft.
 


Mike King

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#80
Following and I think the use of electric motors could make this a lot easier to manage
I was thinking of buying a wrecked Nissan Leaf plus and putting that entire drivetrain in the rear. A 200 hp increase would be nice and I could still get around if gas gets crazy expensive, I can just drive around with the ice at idle and use the electric for propulsion. The only issue I can't seem to overcome is the Leaf is limited to 80 something mph and I exceed that almost every day.
 


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