Datalog Interpretation

[Siestarider]

Question for the pros:

Software like Virtual Dyno appears to use time, throttle position and RPM (plus vehicle constants) to estimate power.

So if a mod actually adds power, should we not see a reduction in time for a 3 or 4th gear pull from say, 2500 to 6500 rpm?

I ask this because my logs tell me times are about 8.8 seconds for this rpm range in a 3rd gear pull, around 18 seconds for 4th. Regardless of mods, with Cobb Stage 1 tune. No change with Mountune air box, then no change with 2J downpipe.

 

[Siestarider]

Let me rephrase my confusion: I thought the ECU software was adaptable enough to modify operations through learning that bolt-on's were adding breathing. Yet my datalogs do not confirm that to be true. Any guidance?

 

[Randy@mountune]

Try comparing the Airflow Mass Lbs / Min. You have to be REALLY consistent with the vdyno runs, though.

 

[dyn085]

Try comparing the Airflow Mass Lbs / Min. You have to be REALLY consistent with the vdyno runs, though.

I've done that between the OEM and Cobb filters, along with filter pressure, and the datalogs are nearly identical. I may Mountune my box to see if it changes anything.

 

[Siestarider]

I have studied all the standard data parameters my AP logs, just cannot find a difference. I could see how cold air vs stock might not show a difference here in hot Fla, but when the cat/decat test showed me nothing, I began to wonder. Began to look at others' logs here on Forum. F=MA, so if I bolt on something that is supposed to add F, why no change in A?

ECU so stuck in its ways it does not know I changed the breathing on both ends of the system?

 

[dyn085]

Do you have datalogs saved to datazap.me or are you just using vdyno?

 

[Randy@mountune]

I guess I'd have to ask... do you feel a power difference?

 

[Sourskittle]

Florida... People don't understand how hot it is here, lol. I maybe dyno-ing my car next week. Prepare for likely poor numbers, lol.

 

[dyn085]

That's what SAE correction is for.

 

[Sourskittle]

That's what SAE correction is for.

Im not sure it has a weather station on the dyno. Not sure if a dyno can figure that people say often around here "I'd take 110 degrees in Vegas over 95 degrees in Florida".

Maybe it can. I'm not a dyno owner or operator. I'm not using it to break any records anyway. Just before and afters

 

[dyn085]

I use uncorrected for personal use if before/after are being done on the same day, and if they don't have a weather station then you should probably find another dyno. I'm in NC and well aware of how brutal humidity is on performance.

No matter what, dyno arguments exist. Collect as much data as possible and keep good records of your variables and conditions.

 

[Sourskittle]

I plain to do everything I can to represent what a customer will see with min mods and tuning and just bolting the turbo on. Then with a good tune as well.

I'm not a dyno tech, but every piece of the puzzle I can present will be put out there. I'm even getting stuck with a stock intercooler because I don't want mod the car anymore than its current state to show the power difference with little as possible mods.

Rick carries the load of making as much power as he can, lol.

I want real world, achievable, repeatable results. Kind of like cobbs OTS tunes. They work. They work awesome compared to a stock ford tune. But when you really tweak them for a specific car/climate it makes a big difference. I want to be the "OTS tune" version. And it may not be pretty. I'm sure I'm going to have to explain many times that its an almost stock car with manifold/turbo work and only exhaust and NO TUNE (cobb ots).

Then once the full tune comes in, the picture may look much brighter. Some people may or may not be disappointed with MY NUMBERS, but at least they will be down to earth.

I think most places would keep this kind of dyno to themselves and only report on the final number reached at the end of the project. Ricks car could put up 50-100whp gains. But... That's Rick's very awesomely built, expensive build. I could very well slap "gain 50-100whp with this turbo" next to a picture of it and sell plenty of them. But then when more "real world" budget minded people like myself have a few mods and put there hard saved money down on this turbo and only see 15-40whp gains, I don't want them mad or with a bad taste in their mouth.

So... My car will go.

Current mods dyno-baseline.

Upgraded turbo. OTS stg3 tune. Dyno

Upgraded turbo E-tuned dyno

Upgraded turbo intake/intercooler E-tune dyno.

That way... I have steps. Rick's car is going to impress I think.

I reallize I prob just wrote way too much, off topic. Sorry. Been a long day, lol. But I want people knowing I'm being as transparent about this project as I can be.

 

[Siestarider]

Yes, I have lots of datalogs. Maybe too many. That is how I finally focused on time vs 2500-6500 rpm 100% throttle pulls in 3rd and 4th gears. When I compared all runs that had 100% throttle (with various mods but same tune) on time/rpm, realized I was not getting quicker, just louder.

Undeterred, I downloaded ATR today, will install MBRP 3" exhaust tomorrow, run more logs this weekend. Having great fun being puzzled.

 

[Sourskittle]

Glad your not giving up

 

[Siestarider]

Installed MBRP exhaust and ran 3rd gear pulls. No HP increase, but I surely got louder.

From early study of ATR, all my logs, and datalogs posted by members of this forum, my best guess is that stock IC outflow running over 109F is pulling timing at higher rpm, hence my lack of measurable effect of breathing mods.

I will post my exhaust and IC observations on other threads. Short conclusion is I either upgrade IC or wait for cooler weather.

Meantime, an ecoboost logic map would sure be helpful. Is this a secret? I can tell its going to be a chore to reverse engineer an approximation with the tools at hand.

 

[razorlab]

Meantime, an ecoboost logic map would sure be helpful. Is this a secret? I can tell its going to be a chore to reverse engineer an approximation with the tools at hand.

What do you mean by a ecoboost logic map?

Also, posting your logs will help others help you.

It's easy to do here: http://datazap.me/

 

[iso100]

Installed MBRP exhaust and ran 3rd gear pulls. No HP increase, but I surely got louder.

From early study of ATR, all my logs, and datalogs posted by members of this forum, my best guess is that stock IC outflow running over 109F is pulling timing at higher rpm, hence my lack of measurable effect of breathing mods.

Don't guess about the timing pull... Have that data captured in your log so you know for sure.

 

[razorlab]

From early study of ATR, all my logs, and datalogs posted by members of this forum, my best guess is that stock IC outflow running over 109F is pulling timing at higher rpm, hence my lack of measurable effect of breathing mods.

Stock tune starts pulling about 1.05* at 110F CAT. (-17.50x0.060 multiplier)

Cobb Stage 1 starts pulling about 1.50* at 110F CAT. (-25.00x0.060 multiplier)

At 100F it's 0*. Like most ECU's, I would imagine it interpolates between the 100F cell and the 110F cell if your CAT falls between that. Same with 110F and 150F cells.

 

[Sourskittle]

First say in Florida with out crazy humidity, still 94 degrees but the car was so happy today !!

 

[Siestarider]

Razorlab: Logic map might be boolian algebra equations relating sensor read variables to the parameter maps, like what my logs suggest, IF CAT exceeds 109F THEN timing is retarded in increments as CAT increases further. The order of all the ECU decisions with modifiers like if, AND, OR, greater than, less than, etc. Or maybe a hierarchy set of decision trees. There must be something like this in the hard code.

I will learn datazap and post some logs.

Iso100: my logs show total timing advance as low as 8 degrees at high RPM. Ryst posted some stock pulls with 14 degrees advance same RPM. More later, local snook calling at 4 am.