Dizzy Tuning Intake Tests

[M-Sport fan]

charge air temps are such a tough thing to keep in check in this car, proper heat wrapping of the intake - especially a metal crossover pipe - would be a significant benefit.

ONE of the reasons I am reluctant to go to ANY metal piping in the pre-turbo induction system of this car, until I am FORCED to with a big turbo/hybrid setup.

 

[danbfree]

I've just about got my intake assembled. Would anyone be interested in some data logs showing the difference between a heat-wrapped crossover pipe and a non-heat-wrapped crossover? My thinking is that since the crossover is right near the turbo, and charge air temps are such a tough thing to keep in check in this car, proper heat wrapping of the intake - especially a metal crossover pipe - would be a significant benefit.

If so, what data would y'all like to see, other than the obvious Charge Air Temps?

Anything that can help charge air temps other than upgrading the IC, which can then have a negative effect on coolant temps would be interesting to see... You'd just have to try to simulate the same conditions as far as warm up and ambient... I'm considering doing the hot side J pipe replacement now, seems like the stock one with resonator can be restrictive.. Also the Whoosh turbo inlet elbow can maybe help flow better too... so in an ideal world I'd like to see the benefits of each of these 3 things separate and all together on a stock turbo and IC setup, it could make a significant enough difference for maybe $200 total?

 

[XanRules]

Anything that can help charge air temps other than upgrading the IC, which can then have a negative effect on coolant temps would be interesting to see... You'd just have to try to simulate the same conditions as far as warm up and ambient... I'm considering doing the hot side J pipe replacement now, seems like the stock one with resonator can be restrictive.. Also the Whoosh turbo inlet elbow can maybe help flow better too... so in an ideal world I'd like to see the benefits of each of these 3 things separate and all together on a stock turbo and IC setup, it could make a significant enough difference for maybe $200 total?

I need to do some lookin' on the turbo elbow - I can't tell if the stock elbow is actually smaller than the factory inlet on the turbo housing or not. I do not plan to do the hotside pipe on the advice of Adam (Tune+). We talked a bit about how SOME increased efficiency is good but you don't want too much on such a tiny turbo. In his own words from our email conversation:

If you increase the volume of the charge pipes the turbo loses airflow as now it is having to overcome a bigger volume delta in order to create positive pressure. Smaller charge pipes the better for the smaller turbos.

If I could find a smooth but still small-diameter pipe that would work, I'd use that.

That said I do plan to do the whoosh elbow assuming the stock elbow is smaller than the inlet on the turbo housing and the whoosh elbow is the same size as the factory turbo inlet, if that makes sense (may be messing up my terminology). Depending on budget I may just grab that at the same time as other stuff I want and throw the whole assembly (crossover pipe + turbo elbow + induction hose) and datalog:
1. Stock
2. New full setup
3. New full setup + heat wrapped metal pipes

 

[stascom]

I'm considering doing the hot side J pipe replacement now, seems like the stock one with resonator can be restrictive..

Just got one. Don't bother. I feel scammed. No one shows the pics of the inside of the stock pipe. There is no restriction; just a few table spoons of extra volume.

 

[redmoe]

Just got one. Don't bother. I feel scammed. No one shows the pics of the inside of the stock pipe. There is no restriction; just a few table spoons of extra volume.

I believe the idea is to reduce the turbulence created by the baffling in the stock tube and not actually increase the pipe diameter.

That being said I did not notice a change with the j pipe “upgrade” but wasn’t expecting much. Figured it doesn’t hurt and it’s pretty cheap. I put mine in when I upgraded the IC.

The compressor inlet elbow is tempting but I am not too fond of the lack of sealing gasket.

 

[redmoe]

I’ve have the Ramair crossover, Whoosh silicon pipe and Injen intake with an AEM filter to get more surface area for the intake track currently. I mixed and matched the stock box with high flow filter, modified stock box, AEM intake, etc and I feel that my current setup is pulling a little harder than the stock box but these changes were very subtle and hard to quantify with vdyno.

 

[danbfree]

I need to do some lookin' on the turbo elbow - I can't tell if the stock elbow is actually smaller than the factory inlet on the turbo housing or not. I do not plan to do the hotside pipe on the advice of Adam (Tune+). We talked a bit about how SOME increased efficiency is good but you don't want too much on such a tiny turbo. In his own words from our email conversation:


If I could find a smooth but still small-diameter pipe that would work, I'd use that.

That said I do plan to do the whoosh elbow assuming the stock elbow is smaller than the inlet on the turbo housing and the whoosh elbow is the same size as the factory turbo inlet, if that makes sense (may be messing up my terminology). Depending on budget I may just grab that at the same time as other stuff I want and throw the whole assembly (crossover pipe + turbo elbow + induction hose) and datalog:
1. Stock
2. New full setup
3. New full setup + heat wrapped metal pipes

If you see the recent FB discussions, replacing that hot side J pipe is all about removing the stupid resonator, the piping size is still the same and I have no plans on going with bigger piping, just want that restriction out...

 

[danbfree]

I believe the idea is to reduce the turbulence created by the baffling in the stock tube and not actually increase the pipe diameter.

That being said I did not notice a change with the j pipe “upgrade” but wasn’t expecting much. Figured it doesn’t hurt and it’s pretty cheap. I put mine in when I upgraded the IC.

The compressor inlet elbow is tempting but I am not too fond of the lack of sealing gasket.

Exactly right on the J pipe, but as far as the inlet elbow you just use liquid heat rated gasket, sounds easy to me...

 

[redmoe]

Exactly right on the J pipe, but as far as the inlet elbow you just use liquid heat rated gasket, sounds easy to me...

Yes you can go that route but must be very careful not to have any squeeze into the compressor inlet area. You don’t want to have any of it “sucked” into the compressor. Also the diameter increase is pretty minimal.

I will most like install one of these elbows when I upgrade to a hybrid turbo. That way is can seal it up outside of the engine bay.

 

[XanRules]

If you see the recent FB discussions, replacing that hot side J pipe is all about removing the stupid resonator, the piping size is still the same and I have no plans on going with bigger piping, just want that restriction out...

Which discussions? Keep in mind I'm banned from at least one of the big groups.

 

[redmoe]

Back on topic of this thread. Jason showed that there is some power to be gained with intake upgrades but honestly I have tried several combinations and spent a far amount of money on this with minor changes in the “feel” and logged air flow. Form the sound, appearance and project perspective it was worth it to me but don’t expect too much

 

[danbfree]

Yes you can go that route but must be very careful not to have any squeeze into the compressor inlet area. You don’t want to have any of it “sucked” into the compressor. Also the diameter increase is pretty minimal.

I will most like install one of these elbows when I upgrade to a hybrid turbo. That way is can seal it up outside of the engine bay.

I think the surface area is wide enough to be able to apply a very layer to the outer edges for a god enough seal, but good point on having to be super careful there... It's a decent enough ~15% increase from 38 mm to 43 mm, but if the turbo itself is the restriction, as is the default answer to almost everything with a stock turbo, then it wouldn't help... Like you were saying, I definitely agree that this could mainly help once one goes with a hybrid upgrade, good point!

 

[TDavis]

So what I'm pretty much getting at is that all you need is a drop in filter, induction pipe, and crossover pipe. A full CAI that other companies offer isn't really needed/worth it.

would love to know the results of the ITG aside of these other intakes

This. The ITG intrigues me.

 

[LaserWhisperer]

The compressor inlet elbow is tempting but I am not too fond of the lack of sealing gasket.

I installed one, also no gasket, no problems. It's a machined surface mating to another machined surface, no gasket is really needed if you torque down properly.
Ron@whoosh can verify

 

[XanRules]

I installed one, also no gasket, no problems. It's a machined surface mating to another machined surface, no gasket is really needed if you torque down properly.
Ron@whoosh can verify

Is there a restriction in the stock elbow where it mates to the inlet/compressor wheel/whatever it's called? Ugh I just need to draw a diagram I think

 

[LaserWhisperer]

Is there a restriction in the stock elbow where it mates to the inlet/compressor wheel/whatever it's called? Ugh I just need to draw a diagram I think

Hope this helps. I don't think there's really any physical restrictions, besides the throat of the factory inlet. You'll notice it necks down quite a bit compared to Ron's piece [emoji16]

 

[redmoe]

does Anyone know what the inlet id is of the compressor? Since the stock wheel is 38.5mm I’m guessing the inlet id is pretty close to that. If that’s the case the stock elbow would be pretty well matched. Ron’s elbow still keeps the id larger until that point.

It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison of the Injen intake that replaces the crossover vs a Ramair/whoosh and Intake. Since the Injen crossover intake is 2.5 inch in diameter and the Ramair is closer to 2.75 it would be nice to see if the gains are due to volume of more due to a smoother less turbulent flow.

 

[A7xogg]

does Anyone know what the inlet id is of the compressor? Since the stock wheel is 38.5mm I’m guessing the inlet id is pretty close to that. If that’s the case the stock elbow would be pretty well matched. Ron’s elbow still keeps the id larger until that point.

It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison of the Injen intake that replaces the crossover vs a Ramair/whoosh and Intake. Since the Injen crossover intake is 2.5 inch in diameter and the Ramair is closer to 2.75 it would be nice to see if the gains are due to volume of more due to a smoother less turbulent flow.

I wonder if @lazerwhisperer could measure the stock one cause if its the same diameter as stock its not a restriction

 

[LaserWhisperer]

I wonder if @lazerwhisperer could measure the stock one cause if its the same diameter as stock its not a restriction

I can measure the stock elbow when I get home. What do you want to see?
I'm not pulling the whoosh one back out to measure

 

[redmoe]

Correction the stock compressor wheel is 35.4 mm at the tip.

We are looking for the id of the compressor inlet. Maybe someone has the spec for it?