• Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features

    Welcome to the #1 Fiesta ST Forum and Fiesta ST community dedicated to Fiesta ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Fiesta ST Forum today!


ETC cut above 5,700 rpm -- Torque

Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
#1
I can't find the source of the ETC cut at 5,757 RPM for the life of me, looks to be torque related. Attached a file (looks like .txt is the way to attach, sorry) - 4th gear pull on E30... ETC Angle Source is 6 which is torque related.

Nice delta between TIP actual TIP Desired -- Modified all the "Limiter Table" > "Torque Limits" to raise values to no effect except for the "Torque Reduction Ratio" sections which remained OTS, didn't modify Max Load at WOT and Closed WG series, tried both with CCF Torque Features on/off with no effect, Load limits at 3.0 and most torque clipping is over 400FT-LB.

Any ideas?? Runs perfect other than losing ETC starting at 5,700RMP, same every time.
 


Attachments

Last edited:
OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #4
There's a pair of load/torque correlation table sets somewhere which I did not mess with... they seem to correlate the loads to a fairly low torque, so with all the torques set fairly high to get it out of the to analize... load decreases all the way to the redline, TIP actual decreases all the way to the redline, the Boost decreases all the way, etc. etc. due to the reduction in ETC to the 40's and 50's.
 


OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #8
Here we go... and 1D Configuration for the TIP Ceiling us set BTW for the above... not quite 3 PSI delta as I've raised the TIP desired since it seems. TIP is probably the most common to cut ETC until the WGDC are set up but in this case it looks like Torque... or Load.... or Combustion pressures, or something else.
 


Attachments

OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #9
I also have set the "TIP Desired - TIP Actual" values to trim the WGDC a little bit and it's closing slightly to close on the delta... not that it has anything to do with the ETC cuts but to explain some of the datalog that may be strange.
 


Messages
402
Likes
901
Location
Rocky Point
#10
And you are using the toggles to enable the Cobb TIP ceiling override? You should have it enabled and strategy 0. I use strategy 1.
 


OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #11
Thanks Jason, that makes sense... I did have the 5 way TIPC CCF strategy off as I was confusing it with using 3D TIPC... I will look at making sure Iā€™m eliminating the TIP ceiling for the ETC clipping, the TIP actual dips quite low... I was looking for OE load limiters as the source, there are million of them. ETC Angle Source monitor indicates Torque probably because it's not using the TIP Desired/Ceiling/Actial tables for ETC limiting strategy.
 


Last edited:
Messages
331
Likes
144
Location
Gloucester, VA
#12
You need to raise the TTL to 2.450 all the way to 6500. The ecu interpolates the load between the cell values, so you are currently Load-limited.
 


OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #13
You need to raise the TTL to 2.450 all the way to 6500. The ecu interpolates the load between the cell values, so you are currently Load-limited.
I thought about trying something there, and I think it can be adressed that way... Seemed to me that the TTL-LTT was the ECU's formula or map for interpreting how much Torque was being produced so that it can build a complex torque based strategy, to say this much load at this much RPM equals this much torque... and if changing the values to lie about torque being produced, I would have to build the LTT to match to cover up the lie, or there will be an ECU error.

I discussed all the sources of ETC clipping with CCF with COBB and they told me the you can still run into ETC clipping issues if therer's a large disparity between load desired and load actual (torque as defined by the TTL is how I understand it). So that's what I was chasing. But now I think Jason is right, it's a very simple strategy switch issue for TIP Ceiling. We will see.
 


OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #14
Dammit... the same. :-(

Raised TIP Ceilings and Desired absolute values, turned on TIP Ceiling CCF strategies, same result.

I'll keep digging, will try the TTL/LTT remap later FORZDA-2 when I have time to match up the LTT to show higher loads for the torque per RPM (if some excel guru has a pivot table of some sorts to do this, let me know), and will log some other stuff. There's something there letting off the gas, attached a screenshot of the last 4th gear log in case anyone is curious, hid some columns to declutter. Thanks for looking at my tuning challenge. :)
 


Attachments

Last edited:
Messages
331
Likes
144
Location
Gloucester, VA
#15
Youā€™re looking too deep, trying too hard to ā€œmatchā€ the TTL/LTT. Just raise the TTL in the last four cells to ~2.4 load and try again. The stock turbo canā€™t move enough air to keep the load up there, so the ETC will remain at WOT all the way. If the ecu thinks youā€™re too far off, it will set the code for ecu.
 


OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #16
Update... tried many things (including upping the TTL cells temporarily), still the same situation... more details: datalogs for torque and load limits are out of the way, TIP Ceilings and Desireds are out of the way, torque source stays at 5.... load tapers from 2.0 to 1.0 at redline, TIP Actual tapers the same, all follow the ETC pulled back. Datalogged TQ and it's all reasonable. Hybrid Turbo so it will produce more load/tq/pressure without the ETC reductions above 5K ish.

1. CCF Torque Features -- Have this enabled (1), and TQ Max Tables either (0) or (1) no difference -- in Limiters section all TQ limits well above 400, TQ max tables well above 300 in this area, all TQ Min/Max are high, TQ reduction ratios are OTS based
2. CCF Turbo Features -- TIP Ceiling and TIP desired sections, I see no issues or limitations here, neither in settings nor in any datalogs, there's a nice big margin. Wastegate Controls -- Waste Gate Cannister Pressure 5 way disabled (using CCF WGDC, and I havent studied thes tables for the OE WG). WG Base (1) enabled with X Axis MAP, WG Compensation Mode enabled (1) and all settings are (3) but also tried (4) which could cause issues but same result, and back to (3). CCF Master On (1) of course.
3. All CCF items like launch control, flatfoot shifting, torque control, are turned off.

If anyone takes the time to read these details and think about how/why the TQ may be pulling ETC, I thank you.
 


Messages
331
Likes
144
Location
Gloucester, VA
#17
Here's what your data should look like. This datalog is from my hybrid-turbo tune where I smoothed out the power delivery to take advantage of the turbo capability. I can hold boost (~27psi) and ~2.1xx Load all the way to redline. I'm using the "manual" Cobb WGDC table to control the turbo, not the OEM pressure ratio. Rather than try to figure out your issue piecemeal without all the pertinent data, I would rather just review your entire actual map, then compare to more specific data to make any reasonable recommendations. FYI, the car has over 50k (hard) miles on this map, no issues. ALso have good 93 gas...
 


Attachments

OP
A
Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thread Starter #18
Here's what your data should look like. This datalog is from my hybrid-turbo tune where I smoothed out the power delivery to take advantage of the turbo capability. I can hold boost (~27psi) and ~2.1xx Load all the way to redline. I'm using the "manual" Cobb WGDC table to control the turbo, not the OEM pressure ratio. Rather than try to figure out your issue piecemeal without all the pertinent data, I would rather just review your entire actual map, then compare to more specific data to make any reasonable recommendations. FYI, the car has over 50k (hard) miles on this map, no issues. ALso have good 93 gas...
I'm using the COBB WGDC... not the OEM... mapped it myself... and it's on E30... datalogs were to figure out what's holding torque. There shouldnt be anything but there is. Any other suggestions welcome.
 


Messages
402
Likes
901
Location
Rocky Point
#19
Use the AccessPort montors to help you determine the limiter.

Monitor: Load Actual vs. Load Desired
Monitor: TIP Actual vs. (C) TIP Ceiling

Are either of these being exceeded?
 




Top