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Ethanol Percentages.

KnockOff

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#1
I dont know how to search for this specific of a fuel topic. There is all this talk of 300hp being the stock fuel system limet but how does that work with Ethanol. The energy content of e85 per volume is less therefore more fuel is required for the same power. The octane and cooling effect to advance the timing is worth it and that's why many tuner cars if they can run straight e85.An e30 tune on a stock turbo is nowhere near the 300 limit but what about a hybrid or bt kit? On 93oct some can expect 300hp. Do you lose any power when at the limet by using a e30 or so tune with just the stock fuel system because the limited flow? Any new info out there from u experienced dudes?

Thx.

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#2
The e30 optimized tune will always make more power, whether stock turbo, hybrid or big turbo. The higher octane allows the tuner to run a leaner air to fuel ratio and more timing thus making more power and torque.

This is not exact but you can think the power limits on stock fuel system more like this:
91 octane — 270 ish hp
93 octane — 290 ish hp
E30 — 310 ish

That’s why everyone says 300 hp is the limit. You might squeeze out a little more if running a good e30 tune with the right parts, or a little less if you have an airflow restriction or are limited to 91 octane like we are in Cali.

In summary, yes it is worth it. Especially if you don’t have access to 93 octane. Then again 270whp in a 2700 lb car is still gobs of fun (I imagine), and finding e85 and mixing fuels is generally a pain in the nuts over time.
 


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Thanks. The last I checked I was told 270 was the limit with e30.

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Thanks. The last I checked I was told 270 was the limit with e30.

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Crank or Wheel? It seems people fail to specify this before throwing numbers around like parasitic losses are not a thing.

Also, "supporting mods" are going to have a +/- based on build, tune and quality of fuel.
 


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I should have specified whp. I'm a lil bit out from a hybrid but was thinking of getting an e30 tune and maybe a content analyzer If there was more power to be made on the stock fuel system with the hybrid and e30 then I would put it on the list. If not. Why waste the 350 bucks for just 9 months.

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slopoke

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My car has been on a dyno quite a bit, never had it on a dyno with a stock turbo though. On 91 octane pump gas and a hybrid turbo, it made 254 whp and 261 torque. On e30, it made 282 whp and 287 torque. Add 4 port aux fuel and e40, it made 298 whp and 317 torque. I've got a 2860 turbo on it now and it's in the area of 330 whp. Dyno shows 321 whp, but the tuner that looked at the data said the throttle was closing a bit and that cost some hp.

If you do go with an ethanol blend, a content gauge is highly recommended. If you decide not to get a gauge, you will have to verify ethanol content at every fill up. Your money, your choice.
 


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My car has been on a dyno quite a bit, never had it on a dyno with a stock turbo though. On 91 octane pump gas and a hybrid turbo, it made 254 whp and 261 torque. On e30, it made 282 whp and 287 torque. Add 4 port aux fuel and e40, it made 298 whp and 317 torque. I've got a 2860 turbo on it now and it's in the area of 330 whp. Dyno shows 321 whp, but the tuner that looked at the data said the throttle was closing a bit and that cost some hp.

If you do go with an ethanol blend, a content gauge is highly recommended. If you decide not to get a gauge, you will have to verify ethanol content at every fill up. Your money, your choice.
Do you remember your supporting mods for those pulls?
 


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Thread Starter #8
My car has been on a dyno quite a bit, never had it on a dyno with a stock turbo though. On 91 octane pump gas and a hybrid turbo, it made 254 whp and 261 torque. On e30, it made 282 whp and 287 torque. Add 4 port aux fuel and e40, it made 298 whp and 317 torque. I've got a 2860 turbo on it now and it's in the area of 330 whp. Dyno shows 321 whp, but the tuner that looked at the data said the throttle was closing a bit and that cost some hp.

If you do go with an ethanol blend, a content gauge is highly recommended. If you decide not to get a gauge, you will have to verify ethanol content at every fill up. Your money, your choice.
Exactly how does aux fuel on this thing work? Extra tank and pump?

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Se7eN

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Exactly how does aux fuel on this thing work? Extra tank and pump?

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Actually just bypass the High Pressure Fuel Pump, adding a set of Injectors straight from the low pressure pump. There are 2 types: spacer in the throttle with only 1 injector and a spacer between the manifold and head with 4 injectors which is more efficient and probably a bit safer. They both use an external controller and usually activate with Boost, or rather the Volts read from the MAP.

The 2018 Mustang Coyote engine features this exact design of extra fueling.
 


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If you do go with an ethanol blend, a content gauge is highly recommended.
How do you utilize the content gauge? Do you add in a certain quantity of e85 first, then start the car and slowly begin pumping in 93 e10 until you're reading e30 +/- 5?




DEss
 


Se7eN

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How do you utilize the content gauge? Do you add in a certain quantity of e85 first, then start the car and slowly begin pumping in 93 e10 until you're reading e30 +/- 5?
DEss
I usually use a content calculator, I already measured the content of the E85 I use and the pump gas. and it tells you how many gallons to use of each. It's probably not a 100% accurate though.
 


slopoke

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How do you utilize the content gauge? Do you add in a certain quantity of e85 first, then start the car and slowly begin pumping in 93 e10 until you're reading e30 +/- 5?




DEss

I will use 1 gallon of e85 to 1.25 gallons of 91 octane. That gives me e43, I do that to give me a margin of safety. Unless you hand test each batch of e85, you don't actually know the exact ethanol content. With a gauge, in about 5 or so miles after filling up, you know exactly what the ethanol content you are running is. Especially helpful to those locations where the ethanol content changes.
 


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Actually just bypass the High Pressure Fuel Pump, adding a set of Injectors straight from the low pressure pump. There are 2 types: spacer in the throttle with only 1 injector and a spacer between the manifold and head with 4 injectors which is more efficient and probably a bit safer. They both use an external controller and usually activate with Boost, or rather the Volts read from the MAP.

The 2018 Mustang Coyote engine features this exact design of extra fueling.
Ok I knew about the single and 4 port options but, the car has a low pressure fuel pump too? I thought it just had the high pressure pump. Been on this forum for years and owned my fist for as many and didnt know. Feeling a lil stupid atm.

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I will use 1 gallon of e85 to 1.25 gallons of 91 octane. That gives me e43, I do that to give me a margin of safety. Unless you hand test each batch of e85, you don't actually know the exact ethanol content. With a gauge, in about 5 or so miles after filling up, you know exactly what the ethanol content you are running is. Especially helpful to those locations where the ethanol content changes.
Were there any instances where your blend of 1:1.25 fell dangerously low in terms of ethanol percentage?




DEss
 


slopoke

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Were there any instances where your blend of 1:1.25 fell dangerously low in terms of ethanol percentage?




DEss

I've been lucky, the station that I fill up at always has had e85 with 85% ethanol content. But batch testing with a water/fuel tester if you pump straight into the cars tank or into a fuel jug, or a ethanol content gauge is recommended to ensure that the fuel currently being run has the correct percentage of ethanol.
 


Se7eN

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Ok I knew about the single and 4 port options but, the car has a low pressure fuel pump too? I thought it just had the high pressure pump. Been on this forum for years and owned my fist for as many and didnt know. Feeling a lil stupid atm.

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yeah, it's under the seat in the fuel tank, it supplies the gas to the high pressure. I take it cause it's electric and the HPFP is actuated by the cam.
 


Se7eN

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I've been lucky, the station that I fill up at always has had e85 with 85% ethanol content. But batch testing with a water/fuel tester if you pump straight into the cars tank or into a fuel jug, or a ethanol content gauge is recommended to ensure that the fuel currently being run has the correct percentage of ethanol.
I'm not lucky enough to have any E85 pumps where I'm at. So I go to the local race shop that sells Renegade E85R, tested to 80% Ethanol content. Local "93"oct is about 5% Ethanol. The calculator basically suggest nearly 40/60 or 45/55 with the higher number being the E85.
 


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yeah, it's under the seat in the fuel tank, it supplies the gas to the high pressure. I take it cause it's electric and the HPFP is actuated by the cam.
So aux fuel is a lil bit easier than I thought.

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Thx for all the help.

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