HS Setup

[3DPrinter]

I ran my car completely stock last season but I'm looking to make it competitive for this season in HS and I have a few questions. I know tires are the best things for performance but the FiST has a rollover risk and I didn't want to allow myself to go too fast in slaloms without upgrading the suspension first to help combat this risk.

I had planned to go KONI Yellows in the front and rear with an Eibach rear sway bar to start. I have read of people swapping the front sway bar instead but that seems to have mixed results and I'm more concerned about reducing under-steer than eliminating a bit of 3 wheeling.

What I'm wondering is are the KONI Yellows in the front worth it? I do want the best setup for HS (need to keep stock springs) but I've read people have mixed results, KONI doesn't even say they fit the FiST (says it fits non-ST Fiesta), and I read a review by another user on this forum that has tested combinations of yellows, oranges, and stock shocks and found that the best setup was simply stock in the front with yellows in the rear. Any advice on which are the best shocks to use and if KONI's are the best to use all around, what stiffness/softness adjustment?

 

[elightbo]

I’m in a similar situation. Interested as well.

 

[m3kerry]

Watching


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[3DPrinter]

Figured I'd post my sources for findings:
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/school-me-on-fist-sway-bars.14241/
See AnimalMother's posts

 

[the duke]

Drive it stock. These cars are very reactive to driver input and you'll learn how to make it do what you want. Experience is key, not throwing parts to "make it competitive".

 

[PunkST]

Play with tire pressures. Its amazing what a change that can make.

 

[3DPrinter]

Drive it stock. These cars are very reactive to driver input and you'll learn how to make it do what you want. Experience is key, not throwing parts to "make it competitive".

Play with tire pressures. Its amazing what a change that can make.

Of course, the best thing you can do is gain experience through practice. Like a few others it seems, I'm simply looking to maximize the car's potential by making use of all allowances for the category. Sure running the car stock is a great idea if you're just trying to have fun or even just be competitive at local events and it's not like I'm struggling to perform well. But to compete on a national level you can't run a car without making use of all the allowances for the class.

As far as tire pressures go I did mention that due to the FiST's rollover risk I'm not swapping my tires until I've dealt with the suspension, though I did play around with tire pressure on my all seasons this past season.

Due to recent responses I feel I should mention I am NOT new to autocross and I am not simply looking to get ahead by throwing money at the car instead of learning how to drive it.

 

[3DPrinter]

I have reached out to a seasoned FiST driver who was able to give me some information that has helped set me on what I believe to be the right path and I'd like to share my path with those who are interested.

Edit: Added KONI yellow adjustment settings to end of 1st paragraph, improved grammar, and added to last paragraph.

The front KONI yellows are important in terms of maximizing performance in HS. Though since I'm firstly looking to reduce the possibility of 2 wheeling and rolling my car, the rear shocks and sway bar are sufficient for now. I do plan on getting the front shocks eventually but I'm going to see how the car feels with the other modifications first. From what I've read what most people are running for adjustment are from 1/4 turn from full stiff to full stiff in the rear and anywhere from half a turn from full stiff to half a turn from full soft in the front which is a wide range. I plan to start off with the rear at 1/4 turn from full stiff and when I get the fronts I will start them at halfway between full stiff and full soft (should be a full turn from either end).

Adding rear sway bar is better than swapping the front (at least in my case) because it helps eliminate understeer, allowing you to throw the car into corners more aggressively. Replacing the front bar with a thicker one can help but if you're not incredibly precise with your steering you will get more understeer. In general some users who have swapped the front bar say it can help you take large sweeping corners faster, while adding a rear bar will help you take tighter turns faster. Theoretically the front bar would also help transition weight better in the slaloms. As a reminder in the stock category you are only allowed to add/replace one sway bar.

Tires I will be using are Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R. You can use 205/50R16 or 205/45R16 though the 45's are apparently better for gearing and are lighter weight at the cost of being roughly $21 per tire more expensive at the time of posting this. You will reach your rev limiter at a slightly lower RPM with the 45's as opposed to the 50's (apparently 2 MPH difference) which will require you to shift to 2nd gear earlier but since it's unlikely to need 3rd gear on most tracks the difference in tire size will cause you to maintain a slightly higher average RPM when racing allowing you to have a bit more horsepower when you need it. As for tire pressure I was instructed to start experimentation at 44 PSI in the rear and 37 PSI in the front. I'll likely fill the tires a few PSI higher to start my first race day off and bleed them as needed especially since it will likely still be a bit cold come March.

For rims, as the tire sizes suggest I will be using 16" wheels which is one size lower than OEM (smaller wheels = lower weight and less rotational inertia allowing you to corner easier. For the physics behind this see: youtube.com/watch?v=8H98BgRzpOM ). Keep in mind when choosing wheels your offset needs to be within +/- 7 mm from stock (47.5 mm). The best thing for handling is a wider track which means a lower offset value making the best possible category legal offset being 40.5 mm but wheels are typically sold in integer values of offset (you could buy 40 mm offset and grind off half a mm to make them legal). Due to pricing and unavailability of 41 mm offset wheels I will be running 42 mm offset wheels.

That's pretty much as far as I've gotten. Please do let me know if you have any questions, I've tried to explain not only my choices but reasoning as to help others make their own decisions. If there's any interest I can add to this thread with any changes I make or things I add since there's still further allowances in stock such as brake pads (no plans to change from stock currently), cat back exhaust (MBRP aluminized is lightest but wont hold up as well as stainless steel variant), and an air filter element (K&N). I do also plan on having my alignment redone as the season approaches but I haven't yet decided on values for toe and camber.

 

[m3kerry]

The tire pressures are what I run on the shorter re 71”s

Been putting off the bar and shocks until the 1M sales. It’s on BaT if anyone has baller money to throw at it


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[elightbo]

@3DPrinter Thanks for the update, lots of great info! I plan on running RE-71Rs as well. Just picked up a set of RPF1s from Oakos which are stupid light and have a decent offset of 42mm. I'll try starting out with the tire pressures your friend recommended.

I've been concerned about two wheeling as well, did your friend suggest any modifications that would aide in preventing that? It seemed like everything from your list was for performance. I was thinking about Koni Yellows or Bilstein B6s on the rear, but that's just a guess.

An exhaust is on my list, but really for the sound rather than for performance.The Milltek non-resonated catback is on my shortlist. As far as alignment goes, do you know if we're allowed to throw different camber bolts at it like https://whooshmotorsports.com/colle...it-2014-2019-fiesta-st?variant=31456077512843? I need to do my research on alignment setups before next season starts.

 

[AZSP33D]

I have a set of Koni Yellows, picked up in September, six autocrosses and under 1K miles, OEM springs for front and mounting plates installed, contact me via PM if interested. Going from HS to STH.

 

[JiminVirginia]

Good discussion. But a couple of things.

I ran my car in H Street last year, and I never saw anyone come close to rolling their car while using RE-71s You'll three wheel routinely, but it's not a problem. The car is pretty stable.

I didn't use a sway bar, but if I had it to do over, I'd install a rear bar. Or at least, I'd try it for awhile.

And I think the Koni Yellows are overrated. You're fine on the stock units.

 

[Pablo Pistoffo]

If I was to run HS again (I'm in STH now), I'd just go with Bilstein B6s, some RE71Rs on light 16" rims and call it a day. The B6s really help to take out some of the over-dampening that the stock units have, and the adjustability of Konis would require tuning (which is a pain in the rear, as you have to pull them off the vehicle, and the adjustments themselves aren't exactly precise. I had Koni yellows on the rear, and was never really happy with them (YMMV, of course).

A rear bar like the Pierce can help you dial in some more rotation, but this thing turns pretty well stock- Ford has changed bar sizes over different years, though- I think the MY16+ cars have a stiffer front.

Bonus: The B6s make the car nicer to drive on the street.

 

[3DPrinter]

@3DPrinter Thanks for the update, lots of great info! I plan on running RE-71Rs as well. Just picked up a set of RPF1s from Oakos which are stupid light and have a decent offset of 42mm. I'll try starting out with the tire pressures your friend recommended.

I've been concerned about two wheeling as well, did your friend suggest any modifications that would aide in preventing that? It seemed like everything from your list was for performance. I was thinking about Koni Yellows or Bilstein B6s on the rear, but that's just a guess.

An exhaust is on my list, but really for the sound rather than for performance.The Milltek non-resonated catback is on my shortlist. As far as alignment goes, do you know if we're allowed to throw different camber bolts at it like https://whooshmotorsports.com/colle...it-2014-2019-fiesta-st?variant=31456077512843? I need to do my research on alignment setups before next season starts.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the RPFI's are 43 mm offset not 42. Shouldn't make much of a difference either way. The rims on Oakos were too pricey for me especially when Tire Rack will mount and balance if you order wheels and tires in a package. Though the RPFI's are nearly 4 lbs lighter per wheel than my Sport Edition ones.

I believe he hadn't encountered two wheeling, but I can tell you stiffer shocks will help dampen mass oscillation and a thicker front sway bar would theoretically help as well but thickening the front bar will give you more understeer so its a big trade off in terms of speed. Though some drivers seem to have no issues with a front bar so feel free to give it a try. Definitely go for the KONI's over the Bilstein's just for the fact that the KONI's are adjustable and the Bilstein's are not. My recommendation would be if you have the cash go for the KONI yellows on all four wheels, a rear sway bar, and take the slaloms gradually faster from run to run to see how your car does. If you feel you're still getting too much body roll with that setup then you can remove both sway bars and add a thicker front one. If you're a bit strapped for cash then omit just the front shocks for now and use the same test.

I was thinking Cobb for cat-back sound but wow now I'm really enjoying the sound of the Milltek, I'll have to add that to my list of potentials especially with that price.

Camber bolts are not allowed in the Street Category (HS), they would move you up to the next category of Street Touring. I'm told the FiST is only really competitive in HS which is a bit disappointing because I would love to add a rear motor mount to kill wheel hop when starting at high RPM in 1st.

 

[3DPrinter]

Good discussion. But a couple of things.

I ran my car in H Street last year, and I never saw anyone come close to rolling their car while using RE-71s You'll three wheel routinely, but it's not a problem. The car is pretty stable.

I didn't use a sway bar, but if I had it to do over, I'd install a rear bar. Or at least, I'd try it for awhile.

And I think the Koni Yellows are overrated. You're fine on the stock units.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/07/barks-bites-fist-rollover-risk-people-dont-want-know/
3rd result when you Google search "fiesta st autocross". I came across that link when I was doing research before purchasing the car in March but after talking to a few people two wheeling didn't seem too common. A family member I routinely race with did say he saw one at the Meadowlands two wheel during a slalom towards the end of the season. They were running RE-71's on 16" wheels like in the video as well. Personally I prefer just not to take chances.

I'll let you guys know come March how I feel about the rear KONI's. As I said I'm skipping the front ones for now so I can grab tires and rims before then.

 

[PunkST]

Is competitive in SMF with hardly squat done to the car 🤷

 

[3DPrinter]

If I was to run HS again (I'm in STH now), I'd just go with Bilstein B6s, some RE71Rs on light 16" rims and call it a day. The B6s really help to take out some of the over-dampening that the stock units have, and the adjustability of Konis would require tuning (which is a pain in the rear, as you have to pull them off the vehicle, and the adjustments themselves aren't exactly precise. I had Koni yellows on the rear, and was never really happy with them (YMMV, of course).

A rear bar like the Pierce can help you dial in some more rotation, but this thing turns pretty well stock- Ford has changed bar sizes over different years, though- I think the MY16+ cars have a stiffer front.

Bonus: The B6s make the car nicer to drive on the street.

Wish I could find more info on the B6 vs KONI yellows. B6 shocks are certainly cheaper but I can't really find anyone that runs them competitively in HS and you seem to be the only one I've found who has tried both. Mostly just people temporarily in HS while they move on to STH. I am interested in hearing more. I'm waiting to install everything until 1st week of March so I do have the opportunity to return and swap them.

The person I spoke to said he runs no rear bumps on the tops of the shocks which allows him to adjust them without dismounting them. Not sure how that works yet. As you mentioned about precision I do plan to try what another user has done and time the rebound of the pair of shocks after adjusting and ensure they are equal.

I should also note as the person I spoke to mentioned that his setup is the same the one Mike King uses who has won HS nationally twice.

 

[elightbo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the RPFI's are 43 mm offset not 42. Shouldn't make much of a difference either way. The rims on Oakos were too pricey for me especially when Tire Rack will mount and balance if you order wheels and tires in a package. Though the RPFI's are nearly 4 lbs lighter per wheel than my Sport Edition ones.

I believe he hadn't encountered two wheeling, but I can tell you stiffer shocks will help dampen mass oscillation and a thicker front sway bar would theoretically help as well but thickening the front bar will give you more understeer so its a big trade off in terms of speed. Though some drivers seem to have no issues with a front bar so feel free to give it a try. Definitely go for the KONI's over the Bilstein's just for the fact that the KONI's are adjustable and the Bilstein's are not. My recommendation would be if you have the cash go for the KONI yellows on all four wheels, a rear sway bar, and take the slaloms gradually faster from run to run to see how your car does. If you feel you're still getting too much body roll with that setup then you can remove both sway bars and add a thicker front one. If you're a bit strapped for cash then omit just the front shocks for now and use the same test.

I was thinking Cobb for cat-back sound but wow now I'm really enjoying the sound of the Milltek, I'll have to add that to my list of potentials especially with that price.

Camber bolts are not allowed in the Street Category (HS), they would move you up to the next category of Street Touring. I'm told the FiST is only really competitive in HS which is a bit disappointing because I would love to add a rear motor mount to kill wheel hop when starting at high RPM in 1st.

Good catch! I was looking at the the wrong long link to a set of team dynamic wheels. The RPF1s are definitely 43mm. I took advantage of Oako's New Years sale of buy 3 get 1. https://www.oakos.com/ENK-379-670-3443BP.htm

Awesome advice for the shocks. Not sure if I'll have enough cash saved up for next season to get all Konis on all four corners since I'm saving for tires currently. Seems like a good idea to gradually change things as well to see how the car responds. It's going to be a huge enough change going from OEM. tires to the RE71Rs.

When I had the MINI, the exhaust to get was a Milltek. They seem to make a great product, although I do not have personal experience.

It's really a bummer that HS won't allow for lowering springs, that would really seem so solve a lot of people's worries.

 

[elightbo]

Wish I could find more info on the B6 vs KONI yellows. B6 shocks are certainly cheaper but I can't really find anyone that runs them competitively in HS and you seem to be the only one I've found who has tried both. Mostly just people temporarily in HS while they move on to STH. I am interested in hearing more. I'm waiting to install everything until 1st week of March so I do have the opportunity to return and swap them.

The person I spoke to said he runs no rear bumps on the tops of the shocks which allows him to adjust them without dismounting them. Not sure how that works yet. As you mentioned about precision I do plan to try what another user has done and time the rebound of the pair of shocks after adjusting and ensure they are equal.

I should also note as the person I spoke to mentioned that his setup is the same the one Mike King uses who has won HS nationally twice.

I've been searching for a while to try and get some data on the B6s in autocross. Most of it is on people using them for street use.

I have read a lot about people running the Koni's one click past the most stiff for at least the rears. Not sure what Mike King has his set at.

 

[Plainrt]

I honestly wouldn’t worry about the rollover thing on typical flat autocross layouts. I run autocross on some hilly kart tracks and at times I will get it on two wheels on purpose. It really takes a lot to do it. I have never had it go up on two wheels on flat ground. I run in hs on the taller 205/50-16 re71r. I sometimes find myself having to get into 3rd and didn’t want the shorter gearing and the cost is much nicer on the tall tire. I would go with the konis any day over other options. Off the shelf konis ride better than stock imo. The rears can be removed off the car in little time. I added socket head hex bolts to upper mounts to make removal easier compared to stock bolts. I run custom valved and degassed konis on mine. They ride like shut on street but work great everywhere else lol.