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HS Setup

Messages
63
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43
Location
Albuquerque
#41
This doesnt seem to hard. Install front SB, go and test, come in install rear sway bar, and remove end links on front sway bar, go test again...

I had thought of that something along those lines, it would be doable… however would just need to keep in mind that undoing the front bar by removing the end links would be different than swapping the stock bar with larger bar.

But it might also be a simple, beneficial test just to understand how the car acts with no Front bar vs. a larger front bar (could be done with the stock front bar vs no front bar also).
 


Messages
314
Likes
267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#42
I had thought of that something along those lines, it would be doable… however would just need to keep in mind that undoing the front bar by removing the end links would be different than swapping the stock bar with larger bar.

But it might also be a simple, beneficial test just to understand how the car acts with no Front bar vs. a larger front bar (could be done with the stock front bar vs no front bar also).
Yeah true, there is the whole stock bar back in issue *facepalm*
 


Messages
63
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43
Location
Albuquerque
#43
Messages
314
Likes
267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#44
I have been doing some further research this evening, had to laugh when I came across this 2017 thread discussing the exact same subject...with several of the exact same suggestions and conclusions:

https://classicmotorsports.com/forum/grm/the-great-sway-bar-debate-front-or-rear/127524/page1/

Anyway, I thought it had some good information and explanations so I though I would share for everyone benefit.
One of the notes that seems the most relevant. There is a huge difference in course design, so there is no 1 size fits all approach. The reason for changing a bar is to adjust a handling behavior. So you have to look at where you run the most, and look to tune for that environment.

My issue, I run equally on very small tight courses, and very large high speed sweeper type of courses (like national style courses). I could see an argument for going with a RSB, as its easy to remove (disconnect) at an event. So you show up and its large sweepers, take it off, tight needing lots of rotation, leave it on.

It all comes down to expermenting, so you understand what each change does to the handling characterisits, then learning to pay attention to what the car is telling you during your runs.
 


Messages
31
Likes
17
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
#45
Already excited for the season, even though it's a ways off here in MN. I've got an RSB coming to try, Koni yellows in the back (stock in back were no bueno), and am trying to decide on tires to replace the Indy's from last year. Thought I'd settled on RS4s in 205/45r16 (they don't come in 50s), but decided I wasn't going to do enough track sessions to worry about killing the RE71r's mid-season.

So now back to the 45 vs 50 debate. Leaning towards 50. Why is this so hard?

Also, a question on 13.2.K, what is "held permanently in place by a factory fastener"? For example, can we pull rear headrests because we just press a button? If so can we remove the front passenger one because it's just a smaller button? What about the rear seat pad, that's just two little levers you hit with your finger? If that's okay, what about the rear seat backs, which are just one clip on each side you push down with a screwdriver or something? How far does the rule go?
 


Messages
314
Likes
267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#46
Already excited for the season, even though it's a ways off here in MN. I've got an RSB coming to try, Koni yellows in the back (stock in back were no bueno), and am trying to decide on tires to replace the Indy's from last year. Thought I'd settled on RS4s in 205/45r16 (they don't come in 50s), but decided I wasn't going to do enough track sessions to worry about killing the RE71r's mid-season.

So now back to the 45 vs 50 debate. Leaning towards 50. Why is this so hard?

Also, a question on 13.2.K, what is "held permanently in place by a factory fastener"? For example, can we pull rear headrests because we just press a button? If so can we remove the front passenger one because it's just a smaller button? What about the rear seat pad, that's just two little levers you hit with your finger? If that's okay, what about the rear seat backs, which are just one clip on each side you push down with a screwdriver or something? How far does the rule go?
For the headrest, the "Any item that CANNOT be held permanently in place", headrest CAN be held in place by that little button, so they cannot be removed (from my understanding). You can turn the headrests backward for helmet clearance, but it has to be installed.

For the tires, I went with the 50 series simply for the fact that they are $28 cheaper per tire. The 45 is likely the better tire, but the % better to me is small enough to not matter at local events. If I make it to nationals, I would consider the 45, but more likely the A052s, THOUGH the Rivals won last year. With our camber challenged cars, the stiff side wall and wider footprint of the Rival, and the higher working temps (its typically hot at Nationals) make it a possible choice.
 


Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
#47
Already excited for the season, even though it's a ways off here in MN. I've got an RSB coming to try, Koni yellows in the back (stock in back were no bueno), and am trying to decide on tires to replace the Indy's from last year. Thought I'd settled on RS4s in 205/45r16 (they don't come in 50s), but decided I wasn't going to do enough track sessions to worry about killing the RE71r's mid-season.

So now back to the 45 vs 50 debate. Leaning towards 50. Why is this so hard?

Also, a question on 13.2.K, what is "held permanently in place by a factory fastener"? For example, can we pull rear headrests because we just press a button? If so can we remove the front passenger one because it's just a smaller button? What about the rear seat pad, that's just two little levers you hit with your finger? If that's okay, what about the rear seat backs, which are just one clip on each side you push down with a screwdriver or something? How far does the rule go?
RS4S is decent for the road course but doesn't seem to get close on the AX... if you want something that lasts longer the Dunlops DZIII is nicer and closer IMHO, even though it's short of the 200 big three Stones/BFG/Yoks. I've tried out all but the Yoks as they are $200 per tire.

Leave the seats and cushions in for H-Street, its SM that let's you take things out.
 


Messages
31
Likes
17
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
#48
Thanks guys. Glad I won't need to obsessively remove things on event days.

For tires, I think I'd kick myself if I didn't go with one of those "big 3". I want to make sure I blame myself for my poor showings, not the setup. May as well try the 71s, and almost set on 50 aspect ratio, I F'd up a wheel on 45s last summer and redlined in autox a couple times even just on my Indy's (so I'll have even more longitudinal grip to get up to redline faster now). But it's hard to argue with coming out of corners at a higher RPM and with a shorter gear ratio to work with...

Anyways, a couple more clarifications while I'm being annoying, if anyone has them:

13.2.A lists "lights [...] modifications [...] which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted." So, Euro projectors are potentially okay?

Also, would a putting a dead pedal type thing to keep from wearing out the carpet down there count as a comfort and convenience thing under 13.2.A, or a pedal cover under street touring 14.2.A?
 


Messages
314
Likes
267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#49
Thanks guys. Glad I won't need to obsessively remove things on event days.

For tires, I think I'd kick myself if I didn't go with one of those "big 3". I want to make sure I blame myself for my poor showings, not the setup. May as well try the 71s, and almost set on 50 aspect ratio, I F'd up a wheel on 45s last summer and redlined in autox a couple times even just on my Indy's (so I'll have even more longitudinal grip to get up to redline faster now). But it's hard to argue with coming out of corners at a higher RPM and with a shorter gear ratio to work with...

Anyways, a couple more clarifications while I'm being annoying, if anyone has them:

13.2.A lists "lights [...] modifications [...] which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted." So, Euro projectors are potentially okay?

Also, would a putting a dead pedal type thing to keep from wearing out the carpet down there count as a comfort and convenience thing under 13.2.A, or a pedal cover under street touring 14.2.A?
Missed this last week.

At the end of the day, 99% of these rules do not matter at local events. Only time someone may care is if you start winning everything. I would agree with you that the Euro lights are ok, and the dead pedal is ok. National event is really the only place people will be scrutinizing. Though again lights/dead pedal should be fine.

Only petition I heard at Nationals was a guy had a front quaifi in his car along with the standard rear diff (evo I think?). Something that was a real potential performance enhancement.

Also on the tire size issue, I think the 50s have an advantage coming out of the corners. Feeding in power on these cars is so critical that NOT spinning them is the challenge. 45s will just get lit up faster...
 


Messages
420
Likes
325
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
#50
Autocross is pretty friendly, very friendly on a local level, but there usually is some “education” that takes place for obvious mods even harmless ones. A couple of weeks ago, had a new guy show up in a new to him Fiesta ST and running as a novice, first time there. As far as he knew, the car was stock but springs seemed to be sagging a little bit as it sat a little lower, and there was a non standard blow off valve that was slightly audible. The announcer was endlessly criticizing him on all for the runs (poor guy didn’t even know it was going on). If you’re going regularly, someone will mention it, these 20-30 year guys know the rules, they build specific cars to the full extent of the rules, that’s one aspect of the sport that some enjoy.
We’ve seen cars obviously out of line with the rules, sometimes the drivers don’t know or don’t care, I would be more comfortable in STH and not worry about it... or SMF if you want to pull the heavy rear seat backs (bottom cushion is super light, wouldn’t worry about it)
 


Messages
314
Likes
267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#51
Autocross is pretty friendly, very friendly on a local level, but there usually is some “education” that takes place for obvious mods even harmless ones. A couple of weeks ago, had a new guy show up in a new to him Fiesta ST and running as a novice, first time there. As far as he knew, the car was stock but springs seemed to be sagging a little bit as it sat a little lower, and there was a non standard blow off valve that was slightly audible. The announcer was endlessly criticizing him on all for the runs (poor guy didn’t even know it was going on). If you’re going regularly, someone will mention it, these 20-30 year guys know the rules, they build specific cars to the full extent of the rules, that’s one aspect of the sport that some enjoy.
We’ve seen cars obviously out of line with the rules, sometimes the drivers don’t know or don’t care, I would be more comfortable in STH and not worry about it... or SMF if you want to pull the heavy rear seat backs (bottom cushion is super light, wouldn’t worry about it)
Thats interesting, and shows how every club is different. We had a guy running R888 tires (100 wear) in a street class, nobody really cared. So things like headlights and a dead-pedal.. I would hope to be ignored on a local level, as why would a club want to push people away from attending their events? National events, yeah the rules are the rules. Running STH because I have projector headlights? That seems crazy.
 


Messages
63
Likes
43
Location
Albuquerque
#52
Ok, So…Lots of talking on my part, finally some action. This showed up last night:

Pretty much the standard formula for HS class.

Koni yellows (front), Corksport (Rears)

Eibach Sway bar (Front initially) to test early in the season.

I may try out the rear bar later…depends on the front results.

Whilteline adjustable end links
 


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Messages
314
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267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#53
Koni yellows (front), Corksport (Rears)

Eibach Sway bar (Front initially) to test early in the season.
Whats the reason for going Corksport on the rears? Also have you run events on the stock FSB? I am very interested to get opinions on this change. A setup guy was waxing about how the common logic on the FWD cars is to do the rear bar, but with the traction loss coming out of corners on the FiST a front bar could keep the inside tire down letting you get out of the hole better...
 


Messages
63
Likes
43
Location
Albuquerque
#54
Whats the reason for going Corksport on the rears? Also have you run events on the stock FSB? I am very interested to get opinions on this change. A setup guy was waxing about how the common logic on the FWD cars is to do the rear bar, but with the traction loss coming out of corners on the FiST a front bar could keep the inside tire down letting you get out of the hole better...
Two reasons, really:

1) I had them already – swapped from my mazda2
2) Dampening is adjustable on the car, just reach in the wheel well over the tire. Adjuster is at the top of the strut.

I have not run any events with anything but stock bars at both ends for the last 1.5 seasons (So 20+ events).

As far as impressions, I always felt the car was very tail happy, especially in quick transitions situations (Like slaloms) this could be tuned somewhat with tire pressures but I am wanting to see if the reduction in Camber gain theory holds up for the FiST.

Keep in mind I am only a regionally competitive driver so anything I say is questionable! ;)

We are still several weeks out from our first events so we will have to wait and see.
 


Messages
314
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267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#55
Two reasons, really:

1) I had them already – swapped from my mazda2
2) Dampening is adjustable on the car, just reach in the wheel well over the tire. Adjuster is at the top of the strut.

I have not run any events with anything but stock bars at both ends for the last 1.5 seasons (So 20+ events).

As far as impressions, I always felt the car was very tail happy, especially in quick transitions situations (Like slaloms) this could be tuned somewhat with tire pressures but I am wanting to see if the reduction in Camber gain theory holds up for the FiST.

Keep in mind I am only a regionally competitive driver so anything I say is questionable! ;)

We are still several weeks out from our first events so we will have to wait and see.
Ah yeah, free is a motivator! And does the adjustment adjust compression or rebound like the Konis?

My first event in the FiST is SUNDAY, so trying to be as mentally prepared as to what to watch for as possible.
 


Messages
63
Likes
43
Location
Albuquerque
#56
Ah yeah, free is a motivator! And does the adjustment adjust compression or rebound like the Konis?

My first event in the FiST is SUNDAY, so trying to be as mentally prepared as to what to watch for as possible.

The Struts change both rebound and compression damping with the same adjuster, They are likely not the highest quality since they were inexpensive even new. But they work so I will keep using them until I can drive well enough to feel that they are limiting me in some way…which may be a long time! 😊

Anyway, good luck on your first event, interested to hear your initial impressions of the car and set-up.
 


Messages
147
Likes
139
Location
hot springs
#57
Anyone else having luck sourcing sourcing koni yellows?

I can’t find any and would like to get something for my h stock build.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


Messages
314
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267
Location
Portland, OR, USA
#59
I had a nice, almost new set for sale a month ago, but try Whoosh.
And I put them to very good use this weekend!

First AX on the FiST. Conditions were high 30s at the start with damp pavement. First run started off with a slalom, and coming out on the 3rd cone put the car sideways! Tail was SO LOOSE. Was surprised, but controlled it and finished with an ok time. 2nd run drove within the limits of the traction available and improved. 3rd run launched and just as I did realized that the traction control was on! So first corners were 1 handed trying to shut off ESC. After that was so thrown off that the run was a bit wild, and improved the time, but wasn't great. Finished 3rd/16 in class. In extra runs improved to the point that I would have won my class. Out of 97 entries was 12th overall for all runs with PAX. With the warmer/dryer conditions I think I could have been top 10 fairly easy.

Was rather pleased with the little FiST for the first time out, just going to be a steep learning curve coming from a Vette. I really don't see the need for adding a RSB, car rotates way to much already, but maybe that was just the moist/cold conditions.

I will start my own thread and put videos in it.
 


Messages
63
Likes
43
Location
Albuquerque
#60
Anyone else having luck sourcing sourcing koni yellows?

I can’t find any and would like to get something for my h stock build.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I second the motion, I would try whoosh motorsports, I would have bought mine there but I had a local shop that price matched and since I wanted to support my local shop, I picked them up there. Otherwise Whoosh has good prices.

https://whoosh-motorsports.myshopif...k-2014-2017-ford-fiesta-st-left-and-right-set
 


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