Is aux fuel the next logical step for more power?

[TalkToTheFiST]

So from what i have researched so far, stock fuel is only good for about 300whp give or take no matter what else you add. I was thinking of stopping the power chase after my e30 tune is finished since my Whoosh hybrid reallly has improved power a lot but looking at prices, i might be willing to go one more step. Single port is under $900 regular price from Whoosh. I have an intake, hybrid snail, catless DP and 3" catback, is the stock fuel system the next logical limitation to replace? Anybody have advice for or against adding a single port and e50+ tune to my current setup? Looking to hit something like 350whp but don't want to push any more than that for a daily driver.

 

[Woods247]

Tuning will cost a lot more for aux than tuning for higher flowing injectors and HPFP. Something to consider.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Tuning will cost a lot more for aux than tuning for higher flowing injectors and HPFP. Something to consider.

Haa well i had no idea there was a difference. So am i reading it wrong or does aux not need a new HPFP? Im not seeing any upgraded HPFP for under like $900 and high flow injectors only add like 30% flow (supposed 330whp) and are still $500 alone.

 

[dhminer]

Haa well i had no idea there was a difference. So am i reading it wrong or does aux not need a new HPFP? Im not seeing any upgraded HPFP for under like $900 and high flow injectors only add like 30% flow (supposed 330whp) and are still $500 alone.

Aux fuel is instead of injectors and hpfp. Like woods said, you’ll pay more for tuning. Just check the tuners website that you want to use. They’ve all got drop downs that will show you the cost for aux fuel tune. It’s still cheaper than the $1,800 for injectors + hpfp. PM me if you want a new in box stratified single port aux fuel kit. I haven’t listed it in FS yet because it’s buried in my garage after just having moved, but I’m going another route so don’t need it.

 

[Woods247]

Haa well i had no idea there was a difference. So am i reading it wrong or does aux not need a new HPFP? Im not seeing any upgraded HPFP for under like $900 and high flow injectors only add like 30% flow (supposed 330whp) and are still $500 alone.

Tuners charge more for aux because they have to tune two ECUs instead of one. If you opt for an HPFP and injectors, they’ll only need to tune the OEM ECU. One of my tuners suggested this path is also easier and “safer” for them since only the OEM ECU is controlling fuel. Your tuner may have other opinions, however. Just wanted to mention this so you don’t do what I did lol. I bought aux then realized I had to pay more than expected to have it tuned.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Tuners charge more for aux because they have to tune two ECUs instead of one. If you opt for an HPFP and injectors, they’ll only need to tune the OEM ECU. One of my tuners suggested this path is also easier and “safer” for them since only the OEM ECU is controlling fuel. Your tuner may have other opinions, however. Just wanted to mention this so you don’t do what I did lol. I bought aux then realized I had to pay more than expected to have it tuned.

Ok ty for the heads up. Now i know what the Dizzy tune option is meant for in their menu lists for aux tune, which is only $100. I may have to add another supplimental E30 tune to that for $100 (or not) but that's still well within a budget im willing to spend next. But before i do that i need to make sure my local shop knows everything to put an aux uinit in, he's done great so far installing my FMIC and hybrid but he's not a ford specialist. If all else fails i'd go to Panda Motorworks in St Louis a couple hours away.

 

[dhminer]

Ok ty for the heads up. Now i know what the Dizzy tune option is meant for in their menu lists for aux tune, which is only $100. I may have to add another supplimental E30 tune to that for $100 (or not) but that's still well within a budget im willing to spend next. But before i do that i need to make sure my local shop knows everything to put an aux uinit in, he's done great so far installing my FMIC and hybrid but he's not a ford specialist. If all else fails i'd go to Panda Motorworks in St Louis a couple hours away.

Aux fuel is relatively easy to install. Stratified has good instructions any competent shop will have no problem reading and following if they even need them at all.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Aux fuel is relatively easy to install. Stratified has good instructions any competent shop will have no problem reading and following if they even need them at all.

So do you know is it the same as when installing a new snail, you want to have the base aux tune ready to go as soon as you drive out of the shop? My understanding is that a radical change in hardware like a turbo (or injectors/aux) needs to have a tune for it asap. I imagine aux fuel could even be more complicated as you are adding something not there stock.

 

[dhminer]

So do you know is it the same as when installing a new snail, you want to have the base aux tune ready to go as soon as you drive out of the shop? My understanding is that a radical change in hardware like a turbo (or injectors/aux) needs to have a tune for it asap. I imagine aux fuel could even be more complicated as you are adding something not there stock.

Negative - you do not need a new base tune if it’s the only thing you’re adding. You can just leave the aux fuel turned off until you get a tune for it.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Negative - you do not need a new base tune if it’s the only thing you’re adding. You can just leave the aux fuel turned off until you get a tune for it.

ok. Just out of curiosity, how do you turn it on? 🤣

 

[subzerospeed]

ok. Just out of curiosity, how do you turn it on? 🤣

plug the fuse in, but some people wire a switch/button+light to the system.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Tuning will cost a lot more for aux than tuning for higher flowing injectors and HPFP. Something to consider.

So im revisiting this idea and did some more searching. Found a thread (it's on my phone but i can find the link if needed) about aftermarket fuel options. Ron@Whoosh even chimed in and the gist i got from the thread was that the Bosch injectors will work with the stock HPFP up to about 330whp. Anybody know if this is still the case or there's any consensus on the injectors alone?

I do like the idea of a more "stock" design concept of PnP with injectors. I know port fuel has a higher ceiling but im not gonna push it past this next mod with power and i would be ok if 330 was the wall i hit. Right now the Bosch injectors seem to be on sale for $500 so im ready to pull the trigger, however if the HPFP is NECESSARY, i will have to wait a bit longer or the wife will start sharpening the knives.

 

[rcnut14]

I do like the idea of a more "stock" design concept of PnP with injectors. I know port fuel has a higher ceiling but im not gonna push it past this next mod with power and i would be ok if 330 was the wall i hit. Right now the Bosch injectors seem to be on sale for $500 so im ready to pull the trigger, however if the HPFP is NECESSARY, i will have to wait a bit longer or the wife will start sharpening the knives.

There’s injectors that you can get on rock auto (that are for like a jaguar or something) that’s are the exact same as the uprated Bosch injectors, but like 1/2 the price. I think theres a thread somewhere

 

[dhminer]

So im revisiting this idea and did some more searching. Found a thread (it's on my phone but i can find the link if needed) about aftermarket fuel options. Ron@Whoosh even chimed in and the gist i got from the thread was that the Bosch injectors will work with the stock HPFP up to about 330whp. Anybody know if this is still the case or there's any consensus on the injectors alone?

I do like the idea of a more "stock" design concept of PnP with injectors. I know port fuel has a higher ceiling but im not gonna push it past this next mod with power and i would be ok if 330 was the wall i hit. Right now the Bosch injectors seem to be on sale for $500 so im ready to pull the trigger, however if the HPFP is NECESSARY, i will have to wait a bit longer or the wife will start sharpening the knives.

330whp seems to be consensus if you tune with Adam. Most other tuners will suggest HPFP with the injectors because fuel rail pressure drops already on stock injectors. I don’t think Adam would suggest it if it’s not safe, but I personally wouldn’t do injectors only.

 

[dhminer]

There’s injectors that you can get on rock auto (that are for like a jaguar or something) that’s are the exact same as the uprated Bosch injectors, but like 1/2 the price. I think theres a thread somewhere

They are the same. As soon as this was found out, pretty much all the other vendors dropped their prices.

Other food for thought - Pumaspeed sells the same injectors, as well as their own modified version they call “double sealed.” Their website makes an interesting point about how far into the cylinder the +30% injectors go and solve that “problem” with the second seal. Idk what the deal is but I ordered some injectors from them to find out

 

[Woods247]

Two of my tuners suggested installing the HPFP and injectors at the same time. I’d wait until you have both.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Two of my tuners suggested installing the HPFP and injectors at the same time. I’d wait until you have both.

Ok will take it into consideration. I ordered the injectors this morning but I’m still in the middle of my e30 E tuning with Jason, then I’d have to get a base injector tune ready by install day. If I have $1400 spare by then I’ll do both, if not I’ll be a guinea pig and do the injectors first.

 

[free_aol_cd]

Pump gas + 92/93 octane +s280 seems to be about 275-280whp. Is fuel octane/timing the ceiling or would adding injectors give more headroom?

Everyone seems to agree 300hp is the limit on the stock fuel system, but I this with an e30/e50 type ethanol tune?

 

[dhminer]

Pump gas + 92/93 octane +s280 seems to be about 275-280whp. Is fuel octane/timing the ceiling or would adding injectors give more headroom?

Everyone seems to agree 300hp is the limit on the stock fuel system, but I this with an e30/e50 type ethanol tune?

You are correct - 300whp is the limit on an ethanol blend. You can likely take it up to 300whp on 93 with aftermarket fueling of some sort.

 

[cidsamuth]

Late to the party, but thought I'd offer some perspective. I have the Stratified 4-port on the S280. Nearing the end of the tuning process on E45.

The good part about the 4-port is that you are cleaning the valves with the spray . . . something that is useful with direct injection.

But but but . . . tuning has been a PITA. Dizzy sends you an ECU tune and then the separate fuel map for the aux fuel controller. Problem is, the 4-port seems to swing the AFR wildly with small changes . . . requiring multiple revisions of the aux fuel map alone before you can even consider getting the next ECU tune revision.

The aux fuel map is not complicated . . . it simply uses tables based on MAP vacuum against RPM. We have fallen into a pattern where he sends me the ECU tune, and I adjust the fuel map. That way, I can make multiple revisions of the aux fuel in a short time based on AFR in the logs and not get bogged down for a month going back and forth with him. I just set the 4-port table to where I believe it will be a little rich, then I adjust down until I get to where the AFR is hovering around the magic 11.7-12.2 for most of the RPM range.

Once I see good AFR, I send him the logs for input. Seems to be working so far. The latest tune is at 31 lbs of boost with good AFR. Will probably hold there, or even go back a tune, to be sure I'm haven't exceeded my risk tolerance for the block.