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Latest 'MotorTrend' magazine.

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jeffreylyon

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#41
I'd think someone who makes the assumption of how everyone lives is the true person who doesn't know how the world works. Keep paying for slave labor and accepting it. The world is what you make it.
Fair enough: I don't know you; you could be living in a yurt made from hemp canvas (but you're not) and using the computer at your local library (but you're not).

Claiming that clinging to brown energy is the high ground over supporting a transition to a pure-electric future only makes sense to someone who doesn't believe in brown energy's contribution to global warming and/or doesn't understand the effect of global warming. Throwing around that anyone who has an EV supports child slavery is *exactly* the same as saying that anyone who has any battery powered device is supporting child slavery. I guess you could pivot to "yeah, but I support less child slavery that you do!" But, to you point, you don't know my life-style, either. And do you really want to propose a "how much child slavery do I support vs. you" contest?

Also, you goofed up: that picture you posted isn't of a child working in a modern-day lithium, nickel, or cobalt mine but of a child working in a gold mine in 2014: https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/154/101/42/1505795826943.html. I get your alternative-facts positioning but, seriously, you couldn't have Googled for a more relevant photograph?
 


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jeffreylyon

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#42
No I don't support destroying our world. Ha e you seen lithium mines. Total destruction.
Erhm...., and pumping petroleum out of the ground, shipping it all over the world, and inefficiently burning it in our cars is..., good for the world?

We're getting ready to collect lithium as a by-product from geothermal plants in the Salton Sea. You down with that?
 


jeffreylyon

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#43
My dad lives in another state, almost hired an electrician who tried to scare him into installing a new meter because there was rust on the meter can, and upsell him to a 200A panel. He knew my dad wanted to install a level 2 charger and his estimate showed he planned to install a 50A breaker (should be 60A). What a crook.

I’m a master electrician, I FaceTimed him and verified his 100A panel could definitely handle the level 2 charger, the only other heavy load he had was the AC, even his clothes dryer is gas. He found an electrician who was willing to do it right for a fair price.


I said worse case scenario you’ll trip the main, reset it, and just be careful when you charge. He hasn’t had an issue yet.
Yeah..., I've heard this one, too - that most home panels aren't sized for the load of charging an EV. Back when I had an older A/C it sucked down 6kW. My Leaf sucks 5kW when charging. The peak draw my house has seen since I installed a meter is 17kW, or 71 amps over 240. Moreover, it's a piece of cake to set my charger to only charge after midnight or charge at a reduced rate.

More talking points fed to the masses by petroleum propagandists.
 


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#44
Erhm...., and pumping petroleum out of the ground, shipping it all over the world, and inefficiently burning it in our cars is..., good for the world?

We're getting ready to collect lithium as a by-product from geothermal plants in the Salton Sea. You down with that?
We could just grow our own fuel like the farmers of the past. Ethanol isn't new. But we are in a consumerism 🌎 So yes there are plenty of problems with oil. It's plentiful and the emissions in modern cars are not like it used to be. Even giant ships and big rigs. Most cars are getting double the mpgs of 20 years ago. If we keep improving what's here maybe we get 100mpgs in the future. Who knows?

I'm uneducated on the by product in that process but I definitely will check it out. But my question about it would be how much is produced and could it offset the kids working for next to nothing? Also could it make battery replacement cost lower?

The picture is pretty irrelevant just a visual representation. It's a fact that kids are used heavily.
It's also seems like everyone just wants to overlook the kids being slaves.
 


Ford ST

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#45
Yeah, I won't be supporting the slave labor & destruction of resources. I'd rather pay 5 bucks a gallon for US oil and grown men and women working to collect it. Not enslaved children in shitty countries. In my location there are zero electric chargers anywhere. Plus the range is super shitty from the gate much less when you wear the battery out. I'll build my own car before that shit. [emoji38]
What is the definition of your location. You are not that far from me and there are electric car stations. Of course I would not need them as I would charge at home. But they do exist. You do you.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk
 


XR650R

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#46
Anyone who claims to take the high road by refusing to use any goods delivered by a supply chain that exploits the underprivileged has no idea of how the world works.
That's the ugly reality of late-stage capitalism. The people with the power and wealth to do so could seriously change how we create energy, through numerous means. They won't.
 


jeffreylyon

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That's the ugly reality of late-stage capitalism. The people with the power and wealth to do so could seriously change how we create energy, through numerous means. They won't.
Yup. Nor will we suffer much inconvenience by reducing waste and energy consumption.
 


jeffreylyon

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#48
What is the definition of your location. You are not that far from me and there are electric car stations. Of course I would not need them as I would charge at home. But they do exist. You do you.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk
This. I rarely use public charging; my wife and I share a Level 2 charger at home. I’ve got the giant charger that came with my truck in the basement cuz we haven’t needed a second charger, yet.
 


jeffreylyon

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#49
We could just grow our own fuel like the farmers of the past. Ethanol isn't new. But we are in a consumerism 🌎 So yes there are plenty of problems with oil. It's plentiful and the emissions in modern cars are not like it used to be. Even giant ships and big rigs. Most cars are getting double the mpgs of 20 years ago. If we keep improving what's here maybe we get 100mpgs in the future. Who knows?

I'm uneducated on the by product in that process but I definitely will check it out. But my question about it would be how much is produced and could it offset the kids working for next to nothing? Also could it make battery replacement cost lower?

The picture is pretty irrelevant just a visual representation. It's a fact that kids are used heavily.
It's also seems like everyone just wants to overlook the kids being slaves.
Then we have to go down the path of examining the water and petroleum (fertilizer is often petroleum-based) use in growing a feed-stock like corn and fermenting it. Although it’s renewable, it’s not “green.” “Green,” like solar, isn’t completely green when the entire life cycle is considered, but it’s lots greener than is brown energy.

For sure, child labor is used throughout the global supply chain. I’m sure that the phone I’m typing on right now has been created with a large dollop of human exploitation. This is the reality of Globalism. EV batteries are no more immune than is any other technology.
 


gtx3076

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#50
I remember when old men laughed at battery power tools. Said nothing beats corded tools.

I’ve spent all week cutting and threading 2” rigid conduit with a battery threader and bandsaw.

Batteries last 1-2 days depending how much we’ve done. That was unimaginable 15 years ago. Small cordless circular saws used to eat NiCad batteries before morning break.
 


jeffreylyon

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#51
I remember when old men laughed at battery power tools. Said nothing beats corded tools.

I’ve spent all week cutting and threading 2” rigid conduit with a battery threader and bandsaw.

Batteries last 1-2 days depending how much we’ve done. That was unimaginable 15 years ago. Small cordless circular saws used to eat NiCad batteries before morning break.
I'm not ready to give up my Husqvarna for bigger stuff, but my Dewalt 16" chainsaw (battery-powered) puts in a solid hour of hacking with 0 complains. And them I can pop the same battery into any number of other tools I have. Too simple.
 


M-Sport fan

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#54
My main problem with EVs is them being so quiet (unless they have LOUD tires on them) that I cannot hear them sneaking up on me on the narrow shoulder-less, 50 MPH limit roads around here when out on a training ride on my road bike. LOL [wink] [:(]
 


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#55
Just read this latest edition and I think they should change the name to EVTrend! It was full of crap about EV's, so look out when people start buying them in their thousands when you can't buy any more new gas powered cars. How are they going to charge all these crappy vehicles when we don't have enough power in the grids to prevent brown-outs and black-outs? Pity I probably won't be around to watch the fun!
if we're good with arguing about wording, MOTORtrend has been covering internal combustion ENGINE powered cars. They're finally covering what they said they would their whole life: motors. Just electrically powered... (when you open your hood do you every say "yeah that's a motor"?)

seriously though, the problems with EVs are well documented and will need to be seriously addressed as they start to proliferate. you're right about that. but think about the ICE before unleaded fuel and the cat were mandated. they were brutally bad for the environment. i mean you can still find people who will honestly argue that the catalytic converter makes the exhaust even more polluted. FYI, these people are strangely never chemical engineers. so you'll never win them all. Not to mention one of the *biggest* car manufacturers was actively cheating emissions testing in the last 10 years. We can't expect large corporations to behave in good faith when profits rule everything. We're still using the more efficient engines to create more power instead of better gas mileage (i.e. "sure we can make a 140hp engine that gets 45MPG but why not make a 300hp engine that gets 30MPG!!!)

the grid is a knee jerk boogeyman though. in actuality, consumers will most likely use their car batteries to get as cheap a rate of electricity as they can. as in they'll use their car battery as a power source to their home when energy rates are at their highest (during the day) and charge their car when energy rates are at their lowest (at night). most blackouts/brownouts are caused by sudden spikes in usage that can't be accommodated by the grid. everyone having basically a power plant in their house will help even out demand.

also the idea of lithium and other rare metals being the sole source of batteries in the future is probably unrealistic. eventually batteries will be made out of more sustainable materials. maybe they won't be as efficient but there is already significant amounts of research in that area.

but most importantly, we're gonna run out of oil and we're gonna run out of it soon. yes we can hope switchgrass based ethanol fuel becomes more prevalent but we can't grow that on the scale we need to power the world's motors. i mean electric motors have already replaced gas powered motors for almost all the tools anyway. and that wasn't because of some bleeding heart tree hugger. electric motors produce much more power and do it much more efficiently.

ICE cars will always have their purpose just like horses still have theirs. but it'll be become a highly niche purpose. times change.

'
 


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Dpro

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#56
if we're good with arguing about wording, MOTORtrend has been covering internal combustion ENGINE powered cars. They're finally covering what they said they would their whole life: motors. Just electrically powered... (when you open your hood do you every say "yeah that's a motor"?)

seriously though, the problems with EVs are well documented and will need to be seriously addressed as they start to proliferate. you're right about that. but think about the ICE before unleaded fuel and the cat were mandated. they were brutally bad for the environment. i mean you can still find people who will honestly argue that the catalytic converter makes the exhaust even more polluted. FYI, these people are strangely never chemical engineers. so you'll never win them all. Not to mention one of the *biggest* car manufacturers was actively cheating emissions testing in the last 10 years. We can't expect large corporations to behave in good faith when profits rule everything. We're still using the more efficient engines to create more power instead of better gas mileage (i.e. "sure we can make a 140hp engine that gets 45MPG but why not make a 300hp engine that gets 30MPG!!!)

the grid is a knee jerk boogeyman though. in actuality, consumers will most likely use their car batteries to get as cheap a rate of electricity as they can. as in they'll use their car battery as a power source to their home when energy rates are at their highest (during the day) and charge their car when energy rates are at their lowest (at night). most blackouts/brownouts are caused by sudden spikes in usage that can't be accommodated by the grid. everyone having basically a power plant in their house will help even out demand.

also the idea of lithium and other rare metals being the sole source of batteries in the future is probably unrealistic. eventually batteries will be made out of more sustainable materials. maybe they won't be as efficient but there is already significant amounts of research in that area.

but most importantly, we're gonna run out of oil and we're gonna run out of it soon. yes we can hope switchgrass based ethanol fuel becomes more prevalent but we can't grow that on the scale we need to power the world's motors. i mean electric motors have already replaced gas powered motors for almost all the tools anyway. and that wasn't because of some bleeding heart tree hugger. electric motors produce much more power and do it much more efficiently.

ICE cars will always have their purpose just like horses still have theirs. but it'll be become a highly niche purpose. times change.

'
I bolded a very important fact that a lot of the naysayers tend to overlook. Both Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solid state batteries are already not just on the Horizon but coming on fast. There are several companies doing Solid state batteries that will plug right into existing lithium based vehicles aka completely compatible and use little to none lithium for the power storage and source. So ya the business already knows lithium not great but like others have said we went through this with gasoline and as much as people rag on unleaded fuel it’s a lot cleaner than the leaded crap was . :ROFLMAO:
So ya reality check time , Global warming is real! I don’t care if you agree I choose not to stick my head in the sand. Ya alternatives are the only way forward. Not sold on pure EV but definitely agree we cannot stick to the status quo.
In the last few years I have realized I have to be part of the solution not being selfish and not contributing to a better way. It’s easy to cop out and say they can do it I am just going to keep on doing the same old same o .
Ya if you have kids you probably think about it more too because ya they are going to inherit our mess.
Even without them I am the son of a scientist and I do follow the facts and deniers well you probably need a better education as you are definitely not following science. Ya it sucks to have knowledge.:ROFLMAO:
 


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#57
Bros burning gas complaining EV tech isn’t green enough for them.

Do you have a closet full of incandescent bulbs from 2007?
Actually I run my house on LED bulbs, incandescent bulbs produce way too much heat and are energy hogs. I keep my thermostat set to 80 degrees in the summer. As for heating, in the winter it's at 66 degrees and I wear a sweater. During that 4 day outage outage I mentioned I had a 3500 watt portable generator providing power to the house. For the entire house I had one single line to the house and that circuit on the generator is rated for 15 amps. The breaker never tripped and I didn't have to limit anything except the usage for the microwave. To use the microwave I would wait until both the furnace and refrigerator were idle, because those are to two highest draw items in use at that time. BTW that outage was in the winter so no A/C needed. Checked my account with DTE and the usage for 8-13-2022 was a 24 hours average load was 307.78 Watts/hour with occasional surges as high as 452 watts for the hour when the air kicked on. To date my highest electric bill is $76.26 and that was for last August when temps were in the 90's on some days. I'll also note that I filed my car up yesterday, 382 miles on the tank and it took 10.4 gallons of premium, average speed for that tank full was 26 mph, all City driving. So yeah, I do my bit to conserve energy.

I'll also note that you should do a Google search for the term "average powerline loses for USA". The result will surprise you, probably a lot. They are actually 1% higher than what I expected.

What is more efficient and produces less carbon emissions? A Gas Furnace or a Heat Pump? Bet you'll get that wrong as most are being told the wrong answer. Take that Heat Pump and subtract another 5% from the listed efficiency. Because the average powerline loss is 5%. Now compare that new efficiency to a high efficiency Gas Furnace. Note I happen to know this number because I had to replace my old 94% efficient furnace with a new one because the control card had failed and it was 30 years old with no new card available. The new furnace cost 9000 dollars and is listed at 96% efficiency. Ah, but you'll say your Heat Pump doesn't produce any Carbon emissions. Did you forget the powerplant that produced your electricity is powered by Natural Gas? BTW, current efficiency for a natural gas powered turbine engine is 35%, so a gas turbine directly powering a generator has pretty poor efficiency. Next up for gas powered generators is a gas boiler (80%) feeding a Steam Turbine (90%) with a Net Efficiency of 72%, still a bit heavy in losses compared to gas furnace. Net result is that Gas is actually more efficient and Greener than Gas Powered Electric. Want to compare your electric water heater to my gas water heater, you'll lose there to. You've got the pesky powerline losses in addition to that poor efficiency for the turbine powering the generator. Actually if you factor that poor turbine efficiency into the net efficiency for an electric car it's quite possible that a gasoline powered auto has a lower Net Carbon Footprint than an electric car. As for why, it's probably the weight of the battery that is the killer. If you want your EV to be truly green that is simple, limit your range and use Solar for re-charging.

Take note, this is pretty clear evidence that we are being fed a line of bunk about electric being so green. Electric is only green when it's being provided by a carbon free source. That means Wind, Solar, and Geothermal. All interesting technologies and all totally inadequate for providing the volume of power an all electric motor fleet will require. So lets look at Wind, otherwise known as Kill all the Birds. Then there is Solar, or Lets not grow Food anymore. What is left is Geothermal - hopefully they won't try this at Yellowstone because it may trigger that super volcano that could kill the whole planet. End result is that long term you'll be spending more time pedaling a bicycle than driving a car, because charging that car will come with limitations. Good news is that it should result in drop in the 40% average Obesity Weight issue in this country.

Point is that the Media, Manufactures, and our Government haven't done their Due Diligence and are all rushing headlong into adopting a technology that we are not prepared for. As a result I foresee that there will be an energy crash in 8 to 10 years that will take out the power from coast to coast and it will take time and a monumental amount of effort to get the Grid back up and running within a month at best, worst case it could take 6 months.
 


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