More downforce, any experience with this wing extension?

[Pete]

I guess what a driver feels is different. At least to my seat of the pants I can feel a difference, even if it is within my own head/body. But I love how it looks as well so I am happy with that.

But food for thought, if it was humanly possible, during a turn where the car is up on three wheels (rear inside is lifting off ground), if some how someone pushed the car at that moment the car could spin around due to less traction on the rear end. So to me if that is supposedly true (I read it somewhere can't remember where) why can a little push from the top of the car not be effective? Of course the faster you go the more you will feel it. But again I like how it looks and to my own body I feel a difference, maybe other people don't and it is a placebo effect I am experiencing. I guess that is why people race cars though to test and try new modifications that other people think will work.

 

[razorlab]

I guess what a driver feels is different. At least to my seat of the pants I can feel a difference, even if it is within my own head/body. But I love how it looks as well so I am happy with that.

But food for thought, if it was humanly possible, during a turn where the car is up on three wheels (rear inside is lifting off ground), if some how someone pushed the car at that moment the car could spin around due to less traction on the rear end. So to me if that is supposedly true (I read it somewhere can't remember where) why can a little push from the top of the car not be effective? Of course the faster you go the more you will feel it. But again I like how it looks and to my own body I feel a difference, maybe other people don't and it is a placebo effect I am experiencing. I guess that is why people race cars though to test and try new modifications that other people think will work.

I'm not saying gurney flaps aren't effective.

http://www.itmo.by/pdf/isfv/ISFV15-097.pdf

 

[BlueBomber]

Thanks!! $300......ouch.

I found out why. It's not an extension apparently. it's the whole damn wing! 3dCarbon is... uh, not the best at being clear about what their parts are.

I've been having a hard time w/them.

 

[Dr. Apex]

Thanks for the clarification, wonder why they don't just make the extension? $300 is way too much for just that but the whole wing isn't bad at all really.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Not sure mentioned, I have a "guerney flap" under the car as well, it is the rear mount for the under tray and the flap at the same time. I am going to make it go even lower with a rubber lip, advice from the race shop manager at MMP. And add sections in front of the tires but they will direct air flow out from under the car, creating more downforce and clearing up the turbulence of air hitting spinning tires.

 

[RAAMaudio]

If the 3D unit is the whole wing then they could of designed it better. the openings and little lip before them is not good with the added rear lip, to be more effective it should of been all one shape and sealed with one lip at the end only.

I am considering smoothing mine, take out the bumps int he middle, the holes, the lips before them, and then molding in a rear section that will work better.

BUT, this is still not a true wing as a wing has to have airflow above and below with the larger surface below to create downforce.

In the end it is more a stabilizer than a wing but could have some downforce modded.

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There is more to gain with a real diffuser and my wife wants me to make one, she likes the idea

If I do this I will cut out a bit of the spare tire well and make room for a real working unit design.

Form my understanding a proper diffuser not only adds rear but overall car downforce and reduces drag significantly.

I will take a look at other parts of the car underneath and may make some flat panels for the middle of the car, with vertical sections to direct air flow.

 

[meFiSTo]

There was a wing that popped up on the other forum that you might find interesting. Here: http://www.fiestast.net/threads/fiesta-r5-carbon-spoiler-and-carbon-wrapped-pieces.1995/

I think you might get more with a diffuser as you suggest, but I'm not sure this car needs it. I real splitter that goes maybe a foot or so back from the (Triple R or similar) lip and a functional, properly attached wing probably are plenty for any amount of HP this car is going to generate (coupled with a tunable suspension). Anyway, thought you might find the wing this fellow found to be interesting. He's got the brackets welded on there so I suspect it's stout enough to handle our car's top end without deforming

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks

I just checked it out, very nice real wing install and I might go that route as well

I will still likely make a diffuser either way or at least sand off the back of the rear grill to let trapped air out, or both depending on diffuser design.

I have the under tray sorted out and it works though now I have a big upward curved duct right after the engine to blow air up towards the DP to help pull more air out of the engine bay, it reduced under hood temps a great deal.

 

[meFiSTo]

Omg.

 

[SirSlaughter]

http://dtmautobody.com/2014/05/30/2014-ford-fiesta-st-body-paint/

Probably not exactly what your looking for, but I thought I would show you what I found.
Then Gold Coast did this one:

I actually talked to the owner on the Faction forum because I wanted to know what wing they used and was planning to go this route on my previous Fiesta.
All I got was it was an ATP wing. I think it was the GT-250: http://aprperformance.com/racing-product/gt-series-adjustable-wings/

I didn't see anyone else post these so I thought I would chime in. I do know that the Gold Coast Fiesta has plenty of track time and it's more or less tried and tested. I think that they changed up the entire look of the car after a while to some insane thing with a detachable front aero kit. I can't remember off the top of my head but I know it was cool.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks for the pics

I have been looking at the GT250, they have a spec size one which is probably what is on the car above. I prefer a more curved wing to match the cars styling more so will check out the other one as well as the S2000 (R5 some have called it).

The DTMautobody one looks like the angle of attach would create lift or at best be neutral, it needs tipped down considerably more I would imagine unless they did some testing of how the air flows over the car due to curve of the roof line.

Mounting method on both above are like I have been looking into as well.

 

[SirSlaughter]

PumaSpeed just posted these:

Thought you would like to see.

 

[stuntdoogie]

Sick!

 

[JPGC]

A huge wing on top of the stock wing.....lol, not for me. I do like that center exit exhaust though.

 

[iso100]

Definitely need a side shot...

 

[stuntdoogie]

A huge wing on top of the stock wing.....lol, not for me. I do like that center exit exhaust though.

I agree...the oe wing needs to be gone.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks guys

No offense in the least meant but I am old school, less is more, clean but functional over what looks fast but might not be so.

Just to set the record straight so we are on the same page.

1) The stock unit is not a wing. It is an aerodynamic aid mostly for reducing drag and might add a slight amount of down force, it can make the car more stable at speed by cleaning up the airflow off the back of the car as well.

2) Removing it would cause more harm than good and not look to great unless you had something to fill in area under it, good thing it does not weigh much.

-------------

The PS unit has a pretty small element and does not seem to have much height as in wing shaped in the middle and no lip(Guerney flap) so it does not look very effective, I would need to see some real test numbers on it as if not adding downforce or reducing drag then it is just cosmetic and reduced performance.

Also the design is rather busy to my eye at least.

---------------

Center exhaust.

1) tips are far to big for a 1.6 engine so they weight more than needed.

2) more piping added to move them over, more weight added.

Net loss in performance

Of course I like center exhaust and considered it for my car but went with a single 3" in and out muffler and single tip but oval outlet for a little style but very good flow.

----------------

I am not an automotive engineer or aerodynamics expert, I just have 46 years of modding car experience but have built race cars and have had interesting conversations with an F1 Aerodyamicist about many things on production based cars.

When I was young there were muscle cars and 510's, etc....I chose 510's. Power was costly, not many parts made, taking weight out, making the car handle better, a little lip at the back, air dam at the front, those where the things we could afford to do so I have always focused on that the most.

------------------

I do not want a big wing on the street, stock is fine, tweaking it a bit for a modest improvement is just mod fun more than anything but only if actually making it better or not do it at all. On the track just making the stock unit work a bit better may be all I do but a real wing can help at the level I am taking this car or I would not bother looking into it.

------------

All this stuff I post is not intended to tell others what to do, it is to help others that might not know the difference in what some mods actually do or not so they can make more educated decisions either way

Thanks
Rick

 

[JPGC]

Thanks guys

No offense in the least meant but I am old school, less is more, clean but functional over what looks fast but might not be so.

Just to set the record straight so we are on the same page.

1) The stock unit is not a wing. It is an aerodynamic aid mostly for reducing drag and might add a slight amount of down force, it can make the car more stable at speed by cleaning up the airflow off the back of the car as well.

2) Removing it would cause more harm than good and not look to great unless you had something to fill in area under it, good thing it does not weigh much.

-------------

The PS unit has a pretty small element and does not seem to have much height as in wing shaped in the middle and no lip(Guerney flap) so it does not look very effective, I would need to see some real test numbers on it as if not adding downforce or reducing drag then it is just cosmetic and reduced performance.

Also the design is rather busy to my eye at least.

---------------

Center exhaust.

1) tips are far to big for a 1.6 engine so they weight more than needed.

2) more piping added to move them over, more weight added.

Net loss in performance

Of course I like center exhaust and considered it for my car but went with a single 3" in and out muffler and single tip but oval outlet for a little style but very good flow.

----------------

I am not an automotive engineer or aerodynamics expert, I just have 46 years of modding car experience but have built race cars and have had interesting conversations with an F1 Aerodyamicist about many things on production based cars.

When I was young there were muscle cars and 510's, etc....I chose 510's. Power was costly, not many parts made, taking weight out, making the car handle better, a little lip at the back, air dam at the front, those where the things we could afford to do so I have always focused on that the most.

------------------

I do not want a big wing on the street, stock is fine, tweaking it a bit for a modest improvement is just mod fun more than anything but only if actually making it better or not do it at all. On the track just making the stock unit work a bit better may be all I do but a real wing can help at the level I am taking this car or I would not bother looking into it.

------------

All this stuff I post is not intended to tell others what to do, it is to help others that might not know the difference in what some mods actually do or not so they can make more educated decisions either way

Thanks
Rick

We can be correct on terms and call it what you like...wing, spoiler, extension, aerodynamic aid, etc...., lol. It still looks ridiculous with both on there. To be able to run without the stocker, some sort of cover would need to be designed to cover and hide the holes. I agree that the stock is fine for the street.

 

[iso100]

Perhaps the stock non-ST Fiesta wing and an add-on wing like they use in GRC...

 

[RAAMaudio]

That might work out just fine

Or just seal the top of the stock element so it can have smoother air flow under the added wing and help it become more effective.

As stated before I really need to get a video camera and do some yarn testing on the stock unit, sealed, added Guerney flap, etc...just to ensure it has clean flow off the back of the car and if I want a real wing then I will have to add one but I would make it quick release and only run it when needed.