No More Tuning From CPE

[Ford ST]

If you don't understand diesel emission systems systems you won't understand why the EPA is going after them.

Diesel emission systems will prevent you from operating the vehicle if there is something wrong with them. Both the diesel particulate filter, and the SCR system have to be operating properly. Also people don't want to have to add DEF fluid which is basically just urea.

There is a big reason why people want to delete those. They don't want to worry about the headache and cost those systems can have. The diesel particular filter sucks up some power and it makes you burn more fuel.



Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[PunkST]

Shouldnt they have tried to mandate nationwide testing of emissions equipment before trying to do this? Seems odd as hell to put the cart before the horse in regions where emissions testing isnt required at all. ( like my local area for example). Govt is gonna do what it does and tuners will work around and with the guidelines.

 

[FORZDA 2]

...Govt is gonna do what it does and tuners will work around and with the guidelines.

The current problem with the EPA is that the aftermarket has "worked around" the emissions devices by simply disconnecting and deleting them. Shouldn't really be a problem as relatively few vehicles are modified by their owners anyway.

HOWEVER, the DIESEL "tuners" drew a lot of attention to themselves with all the redneck "rolling coal" activity which an emissions compliant diesel will NOT do. The pot-bellied biker dealers (Harley Davidson) also sold their factory-designed Screaming Eagle brand emissions defeat as a "package" on a brand new bike. So, these two groups brought the EPA down on the whole aftermarket and here we are.

As for CPE, they likely weren't making any serious money on their tuning. Long story, but CPE made some business decisions back in the 2006-2008 time that likely hurt them within the tuner community. CPE are still one of the best component parts makers still, so there you go.

 

[PunkST]

Yeah and tuners will have to adapt to leaving emissions equipment in place and active if they want to continue. You can still optimize a car's tune and leave that stuff active.

 

[Dpro]

You could be right but it was the tuners they went after on the diesels because it was easy to prove they altered the emissions and I feel sure that is where they will go on the gas stuff. Without a tune changing a turbo will be fruitless so why bother with hardware. Changing the IC and plumbing will not alter emissions. So to kill upgrades the tune is where they will concentrate. As to CAT's ours are visually checked annually here so the County (Only certain counties do testing in TN) will nail you for that. As to economics on the MP-215 it was bought mainly from people like me that are tested and wanted no problems with annual testing nor with warranty service. The MP-215 was not legal on cars after 2016. (just checked Mountune site) I suspect factory software changes negated it and Ford saw no reason to re-certify it for Mountune with sales being so low. I'm sure they lost no money LOL. I bought mine from Ford as they discounted it $200 lower than Mountune. Looking at the Ford performance site Ford has like 23 EPA approved mods for the Mustang but Mountune does not do the Coyote, only Ecoboost I believe. Ford shows zero for the Fist and one for the FoST. We are thinking of doing the "Bullitt" engine upgrade on our Mustang for $1000 being warranty and EPA approved. Kind of like an MP-215 level boost for the Coyote. As to the FiST the MP-215 remap lowered the torque curve so it pulls like a train from about 3K RPM plus the 20HP up top. I'm happy with it as it sits. It is all guess work but we will see soon what the EPA will do. Wrench On!

What I stated about CARB and E.O. charges is real and true. I have been around the aftermarket for years in SoCal. I have talked to more than one aftermarket supplier that stopped manufacturing emission legal stuff because of the 10k a year charge. It does add up and it does offset profits and it would effect Mountune. I also was aware it was not legal after 2016 and Mountune told me they did not want to redo their E.O. number for it. As I originally thought about getting it when I first got my car. They did not sell enough to warrant the costs and like I already mentioned I have heard that story before from other companies that were bigger than Mountune, JDM companies which have a much bigger market than Mountune . I live here I know you do not.

 

[MitchsFiesta]

If you have been tuned by Mitch you are good. Why they aren’t tuning new customers who knows. They are focusing on proprietary parts.

I can agree with that first statement ;]

 

[MitchsFiesta]

Shouldnt they have tried to mandate nationwide testing of emissions equipment before trying to do this? Seems odd as hell to put the cart before the horse in regions where emissions testing isnt required at all. ( like my local area for example). Govt is gonna do what it does and tuners will work around and with the guidelines.

I think the goal is to get tuners to work within the emissions guidelines. Have you noticed that some manufacturers are releasing downpipes with EPA certified GESI cats? CP-E has started to do this on a few products like our c8 corvette mid pipes. These cats flow 99% as well as a catless downpipe and still certify emissions requirements and are approved by the EPA. Basically, a way to have your cake and eat it too. Make power and still be emissions compliant. The problem is, these EPA certified cats are crazy expensive. Cobb's RS downpipe with a GESI cat is like $1k.

 

[jmrtsus]

Shouldnt they have tried to mandate nationwide testing of emissions equipment before trying to do this? Seems odd as hell to put the cart before the horse in regions where emissions testing isnt required at all. ( like my local area for example). Govt is gonna do what it does and tuners will work around and with the guidelines.

What I stated about CARB and E.O. charges is real and true. I have been around the aftermarket for years in SoCal. I have talked to more than one aftermarket supplier that stopped manufacturing emission legal stuff because of the 10k a year charge. It does add up and it does offset profits and it would effect Mountune. I also was aware it was not legal after 2016 and Mountune told me they did not want to redo their E.O. number for it. As I originally thought about getting it when I first got my car. They did not sell enough to warrant the costs and like I already mentioned I have heard that story before from other companies that were bigger than Mountune, JDM companies which have a much bigger market than Mountune . I live here I know you do not.

What JDM tunes are available for the FiST? Sorry not familiar with them and the internet shows multiple different businesses with that name. BTW there is no redo on E.O. numbers it there were changes made to the tune. It has to be re-certified with the EPA and CARB. They did not re-certify for the 17-19 because sale were in the dump and no money to be made on the USA FiST.
BTW Mountune is entirely owned by the Saverys family worth $951 million. The CMB group bought Mountune. I'm sure if there was money to be made by Mountune on the USA FiST they could afford to throw $10K to Cali, LOL Also sure it was a business decision based on projected USA FiST sales. Plenty of Mountune upgrades in the rest of the world where the FiST actually sells. Hell, Ford did not even want to certify the new 3 cyl. engine in the USA. Do you know anyone that did not get rebates and beat the dealer down on prices for a FiST in the USA? The market for an expensive legal tune like Mountune here was a joke due to low sales. The market for non legal tunes has been good since the are so cheap compared to a legal one.

From 3 minutes of research, "The Saverys family is one of the oldest shipping related families in Belgium. It controls the CMB group, Bocimar, Delphis, ASL Aviation, Euronav and Exmar companies. The combined wealth of the Saverys family is $951 Million dollars."

 

[SteveS]

JDM means Japanese Domestic Market

 

[jmrtsus]

JDM means Japanese Domestic Market

I know.......others may not!

 

[PunkST]

I think the goal is to get tuners to work within the emissions guidelines. Have you noticed that some manufacturers are releasing downpipes with EPA certified GESI cats? CP-E has started to do this on a few products like our c8 corvette mid pipes. These cats flow 99% as well as a catless downpipe and still certify emissions requirements and are approved by the EPA. Basically, a way to have your cake and eat it too. Make power and still be emissions compliant. The problem is, these EPA certified cats are crazy expensive. Cobb's RS downpipe with a GESI cat is like $1k.

Haven't really been looking at parts lately. Theres a chance i may change platforms due to the constant mechanical problems im having. But that is off topic.

 

[slopoke]

It can also be done on the down low.



Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

True, but all it would take is an EPA investigator posing as a customer to request a tune. It's kinda like a state board of alcohol sending a minor into a bar or store to see if he or she can purchase alcohol. If a sale happens, the business is subject to fines and other penalties.

 

[Dpro]

What JDM tunes are available for the FiST? Sorry not familiar with them and the internet shows multiple different businesses with that name. BTW there is no redo on E.O. numbers it there were changes made to the tune. It has to be re-certified with the EPA and CARB. They did not re-certify for the 17-19 because sale were in the dump and no money to be made on the USA FiST.
BTW Mountune is entirely owned by the Saverys family worth $951 million. The CMB group bought Mountune. I'm sure if there was money to be made by Mountune on the USA FiST they could afford to throw $10K to Cali, LOL Also sure it was a business decision based on projected USA FiST sales. Plenty of Mountune upgrades in the rest of the world where the FiST actually sells. Hell, Ford did not even want to certify the new 3 cyl. engine in the USA. Do you know anyone that did not get rebates and beat the dealer down on prices for a FiST in the USA? The market for an expensive legal tune like Mountune here was a joke due to low sales. The market for non legal tunes has been good since the are so cheap compared to a legal one.

From 3 minutes of research, "The Saverys family is one of the oldest shipping related families in Belgium. It controls the CMB group, Bocimar, Delphis, ASL Aviation, Euronav and Exmar companies. The combined wealth of the Saverys family is $951 Million dollars."

We are talking about laws overall. You started a lot of this with your broad sweeping assumptions you posted and a lot of was specifically about Diesel trucks mods to use your own words on you “ what does that have to do with tuning FiST’s”
You need to get off the FiST only part because guess what these things affect all cars and possible aftermarkets.


Second off I stated that sales were in the dumps and that is why Mountune did not get it recertified .

I mentioned the abbreviation JDM because most people here know JDM means companies making aftermarket parts for those cars.
Don’t try to call that out if you do not know you are definitely not qualified to try and talk about CARB and the things they do.
Third off it does not matter how much a company is worth. A company does not through good money after bad. i.e. No money to be made why spend the extra to recertify .
You obviously have decided you are an expert on California emissions law even though you do not live here. lol
The E.O. number has to be paid for yearly. At 10K that adds into the bottom line. Sure Mountune might be owned by a rich large corporation but corps try to save money and depend on their companies to manage the bottom line and not lose money at all.

I know.......others may not!

lol Everyone here knows, unless they have been under a rock for the last 20 years . This is an enthusiasts site and a lot here own or have owned JDM cars.

True, but all it would take is an EPA investigator posing as a customer to request a tune. It's kinda like a state board of alcohol sending a minor into a bar or store to see if he or she can purchase alcohol. If a sale happens, the business is subject to fines and other penalties.

Actually its not too far off base. CARB already does this exact thing with Smog shops. They send in investigators posing as customers to make sure techs are not missing stuff . They also do spy on them from time to time by sending in dummy customers to get the techs to violate the smog test rules.
Yup its pretty crazy and pretty predatory. I am not a fan of that kind of enforcement either.
I am not against cleaning up the air I do have issues with some of the policies of CARB and their actions. The people at the top calling the shots are sometimes not as educated as they need to be.

 

[jmrtsus]

We are talking about laws overall. You started a lot of this with your broad sweeping assumptions you posted and a lot of was specifically about Diesel trucks mods to use your own words on you “ what does that have to do with tuning FiST’s”
You need to get off the FiST only part because guess what these things affect all cars and possible aftermarkets.


Second off I stated that sales were in the dumps and that is why Mountune did not get it recertified .

I mentioned the abbreviation JDM because most people here know JDM means companies making aftermarket parts for those cars.
Don’t try to call that out if you do not know you are definitely not qualified to try and talk about CARB and the things they do.
Third off it does not matter how much a company is worth. A company does not through good money after bad. i.e. No money to be made why spend the extra to recertify .
You obviously have decided you are an expert on California emissions law even though you do not live here. lol
The E.O. number has to be paid for yearly. At 10K that adds into the bottom line. Sure Mountune might be owned by a rich large corporation but corps try to save money and depend on their companies to manage the bottom line and not lose money at all.


lol Everyone here knows, unless they have been under a rock for the last 20 years . This is an enthusiasts site and a lot here own or have owned JDM cars. lol

 

[jmrtsus]

We are talking about laws overall. You started a lot of this with your broad sweeping assumptions you posted and a lot of was specifically about Diesel trucks mods to use your own words on you “ what does that have to do with tuning FiST’s”
You need to get off the FiST only part because guess what these things affect all cars and possible aftermarkets.


Second off I stated that sales were in the dumps and that is why Mountune did not get it recertified .

I mentioned the abbreviation JDM because most people here know JDM means companies making aftermarket parts for those cars.
Don’t try to call that out if you do not know you are definitely not qualified to try and talk about CARB and the things they do.
Third off it does not matter how much a company is worth. A company does not through good money after bad. i.e. No money to be made why spend the extra to recertify .
You obviously have decided you are an expert on California emissions law even though you do not live here. lol
The E.O. number has to be paid for yearly. At 10K that adds into the bottom line. Sure Mountune might be owned by a rich large corporation but corps try to save money and depend on their companies to manage the bottom line and not lose money at all.


lol Everyone here knows, unless they have been under a rock for the last 20 years . This is an enthusiasts site and a lot here own or have owned JDM cars.


Actually its not too far off base. CARB already does this exact thing with Smog shops. They send in investigators posing as customers to make sure techs are not missing stuff . They also do spy on them from time to time by sending in dummy customers to get the techs to violate the smog test rules.
Yup its pretty crazy and pretty predatory. I am not a fan of that kind of enforcement either.
I am not against cleaning up the air I do have issues with some of the policies of CARB and their actions. The people at the top calling the shots are sometimes not as educated as they need to be.

You are the expert tell us what you went through to import a JDM car and all the people that have owned one.......LOL! ZERO! You may possibly have bought Japanese Domestic parts but not a JDM car unless you have very deep pockets and like to drive on the wrong side of the car, which I doubt or you would not be driving a FiST. Here is a web site to help you understand what a JDM car actually is. https://www.topspeed.com/cars/mythbuster-the-truth-about-jdm-cars-ar187789.html And my only reference to CARB was that the MP-215 was certified for all 50 states which would include Cali cars. Get off your high horse Mr. CARB expert the other 49 states just laugh about it and could care less. I expressed an opinion based on the EPA statement they released that you seem to not have even read. I unblocked you to see if you had changed in the past few years. Nope! Still a BS thrower, back to blocked!

 

[M-Sport fan]

I think the goal is to get tuners to work within the emissions guidelines. Have you noticed that some manufacturers are releasing downpipes with EPA certified GESI cats? CP-E has started to do this on a few products like our c8 corvette mid pipes. These cats flow 99% as well as a catless downpipe and still certify emissions requirements and are approved by the EPA. Basically, a way to have your cake and eat it too. Make power and still be emissions compliant. The problem is, these EPA certified cats are crazy expensive. Cobb's RS downpipe with a GESI cat is like $1k.

So I am therefore guessing that a FiST GESI downpipe is thoroughly and TOTALLY out of the question, correct?

Also, I know that it is a moot point now, but when you were still doing tuning, was it only/solely for aftermarket BT/hybrid setups, or did you also do any for the factory snails, whether canned or full custom, or in person, or by email?

 

[MitchsFiesta]

So I am therefore guessing that a FiST GESI downpipe is thoroughly and TOTALLY out of the question, correct?

Also, I know that it is a moot point now, but when you were still doing tuning, was it only/solely for aftermarket BT/hybrid setups, or did you also do any for the factory snails, whether canned or full custom, or in person, or by email?

Nobody that I am aware of makes a downpipe with a GESI cat for the FiST, no, they would likely price themselves out of the market.

It was anything. Big turbo, hybrid turbo, factory turbo, built motors, aux fuel, dyno tunes, remote tunes, e-tunes.

 

[LastMK7]

Fascinating thread, glad I asked the question. Thanks to Mitch for speaking up and filling us all in!

 

[CSM]

It was anything. Big turbo, hybrid turbo, factory turbo, built motors, aux fuel, dyno tunes, remote tunes, e-tunes.

Guitars? 🤣🤣🤣

 

[M-Sport fan]

a fish?? LOL