Not making boost after 2860 install

[dhminer]

Finally posting to the group here after 3 weeks of troubleshooting to no avail.

Had an ATP Gen 2 GTX2860R kit installed on 3/25 including the Tial 16 lb waste gate actuator and an airtec tubular manifold. I was up and running by 3/31 but only making ~10 lbs of boost on base map versus the 16 lb spring. It's hitting this peak value around 4k and falling to ~9 lbs by 6500 rpm.

Troublshooting completed:
- Pre-loaded waste gate correctly to 4mm per Adam at Tuneplus. Increased boost from ~10 lbs to ~12 lbs.
- Located two small boost leaks. No gain.
- Removed turbo and manifold, installed ATP provided waste gate. Peaking at ~ 9.5 lbs and dropping to ~8 lbs by 6500 rpm. No evidence of pre-turbo exhaust leak found.

Going to try to spin the turbine by hand and see if there's potential turbo issue. Other than a major boost leak that I didn't find (possible, given I suck at finding them) what other thoughts do you guys have?

Only variables seemingly left are bad manifold and bad turbo. In the next few days I'll pull the manifold and run the 2860 with stock manifold to see what happens. Depending on result I'll run the stock turbo on the airtec manifold to see what that does.

Log attached with the 16 lb Tial WGA. Doesn't boost as early as it seemingly should given other's dynos with the same turbo and sure doesn't hit or hold the boost it should.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Your wastegate solenoid vacuum hoses might not be set correctly, if they aren't you would potentially not make much if any boost at all. Double and triple check to make sure it is set up correctly. There should be a hose coming from the boost reference (i.e. turbine housing), the wastegate, and the air return (i.e. intake piping). Even with a big turbo the setup should be very very similar.

 

[dhminer]

Your wastegate solenoid vacuum hoses might not be set correctly, if they aren't you would potentially not make much if any boost at all. Double and triple check to make sure it is set up correctly. There should be a hose coming from the boost reference (i.e. turbine housing), the wastegate, and the air return (i.e. intake piping). Even with a big turbo the setup should be very very similar.

Thanks, Mag. Got that sorted out after the shop that installed the turbo and manifold didn't put the solenoid on at all lol

 

[MagnetiseST]

Thanks, Mag. Got that sorted out after the shop that installed the turbo and manifold didn't put the solenoid on at all lol

Well there you go lol, we all make mistakes. Honestly better than the reverse scenario of expecting 16psi and then blowing a rod to the moon when you hit 50psi


fwiw: you'd notice the manifold being bad, it would tick/hiss/make tons of noise as the exhaust escaped. Even running it for a short while would show you were it was leaking from if at all.

 

[dhminer]

Well there you go lol, we all make mistakes. Honestly better than the reverse scenario of expecting 16psi and then blowing a rod to the moon when you hit 50psi


fwiw: you'd notice the manifold being bad, it would tick/hiss/make tons of noise as the exhaust escaped. Even running it for a short while would show you were it was leaking from if at all.

Definitely. That was two weeks ago though and didn’t fix the lack of boost issue.

Noted on the manifold. I would’ve been shocked if that was the problem.

 

[dhminer]

Checked the compressor and happy to say it rotates freely. Tried a pull with no BOV to see if that was the leak, also failed. Max of 9.7 lbs of boost right around 4k and falls fast.

I have the boost leak tester plugged up and am not finding much in the way of boost leaks. Is it possible the evap system is causing it?

 

[dhminer]

ATP suggested removing the hose going to the wastegate actuator to see if it'll boost higher. Worth a shot.

 

[MagnetiseST]

ATP suggested removing the hose going to the wastegate actuator to see if it'll boost higher. Worth a shot.

I wouldn't unless you know what spring pressure it is inside.

Are you certain it isn't the tune?

 

[dhminer]

I wouldn't unless you know what spring pressure it is inside.

Are you certain it isn't the tune?

ATP confirmed the WGA is 1 bar but Adam @ Tuneplus said he's never seen one of theirs hold that much boost.

Certain that it isn't the tune, no. Both Jason @ Dizzy and Adam @ Tuneplus did base maps which is all I've tried with 0 WGDC. I think I've frustrated Adam, but I'd expect to see the boost hold and not taper off as revs rise or is my thinking flawed?

 

[MagnetiseST]

Boost would taper off as the exhaust pressure over powered the wastegate spring pressure, especially if WGDC is set to 0

 

[dhminer]

Boost would taper off as the exhaust pressure over powered the wastegate spring pressure, especially if WGDC is set to 0

Noted with thanks. Could that explain hitting a max of 8.7 psi on what ATP tells me is a 1 bar spring?

 

[MagnetiseST]

Noted with thanks. Could that explain hitting a max of 8.7 psi on what ATP tells me is a 1 bar spring?

Yes, in essence 0 wgdc means the gate is closed at all times thus it is running purely on mechanical spring pressure. If that is the case and everything is functioning as it should, its possible that its making more boost than the spring can handle and forcing it open.

 

[dhminer]

Been reading up on our PCV system a bit as well and think that could be part of the problem.

When I pull the PCV hose off of the intake manifold, I can blow into it and get some air to flow into the valve cover. Pull the valve cover line off also and plug it with my thumb, can blow into the intake manifold side of the hose until my eyeballs pop out and no air will go through. Thoughts? Is there a check valve at the intake manifold or only at the valve cover side of the PCV system?

 

[MagnetiseST]

Been reading up on our PCV system a bit as well and think that could be part of the problem.

When I pull the PCV hose off of the intake manifold, I can blow into it and get some air to flow into the valve cover. Pull the valve cover line off also and plug it with my thumb, can blow into the intake manifold side of the hose until my eyeballs pop out and no air will go through. Thoughts? Is there a check valve at the intake manifold or only at the valve cover side of the PCV system?

Even if the valves were bad, it should never see or leak that much boost. You'd be really fucking with pressurizing your oil from boost pressure if that were the case and blowing out all kinds of seals. The manifold hard plastic line has a check valve to stop boost from going back through the evap system right there close to the connector. The line that connects to the charge pipe has one near the induction hose, and the valve cover check valve is internal and cannot be replaced separately; you replace the whole cover. You can replace them, but I've never seen anyone lose any significant amount of boost from that failing.

 

[dhminer]

Even if the valves were bad, it should never see or leak that much boost. You'd be really fucking with pressurizing your oil from boost pressure if that were the case and blowing out all kinds of seals. The manifold hard plastic line has a check valve to stop boost from going back through the evap system right there close to the connector. The line that connects to the charge pipe has one near the induction hose, and the valve cover check valve is internal and cannot be replaced separately; you replace the whole cover. You can replace them, but I've never seen anyone lose any significant amount of boost from that failing.

Thanks again. Running out of shit to try troubleshooting

 

[MagnetiseST]

Thanks again. Running out of shit to try troubleshooting

have you asked your tuner to mess with the WGDC and see if anything changes?

 

[dhminer]

have you asked your tuner to mess with the WGDC and see if anything changes?

I haven't yet. Two tuners both working on a tune for me, just have base map from each.

One tuner's comment is that I'm not making enough boost on the base map and need to figure out the issue. Awaiting reply from the second.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Does the kit have a blow off valve adapter?

 

[dhminer]

Quick summary of the things I've tried (on the ATP provided 1 bar wastegate actuator).

• Removed turbo, check wastegate preload. Set at 3 full turns from closed. Just over 3mm.
• Inspected for exhaust leaks pre-turbo while manifold and turbo were off. No indication of leaks.
• Removed turbo blanket, possible actuator interference.
• Boost leak test, located two very small leaks and corrected, no improvement.
  • One leak at hot side pipe to intercooler, one leak at intercooler cold side. Took 15 lbs to find leaks.
  • Blocked the evap port at intake manifold just above throttle body, CCV outlet at valve cover, evap nipple on cold side pipe.
• Ran one log with no BOV in place, no improvement.
• Ran one log with WGA connected directly to compressor outlet boost reference, no improvement.
• Removed turbo inlet, confirmed turbine spins freely per suggestion from ATP. It does.

 

[dhminer]

Does the kit have a blow off valve adapter?

The hot side pipe has a 1” port for a BOV which I have blocked off and am running a symposer port BOV.