Post your datazap datalogs !!

[Sekred]

One of my first Datazaps.
Thanks to some great help from dyn085, we manage to get my phone app logs transferred to Datazap. It doesn't log like a AP maybe because of the sample time but its better than nothing.

Here is a 9 minute run on a motorway, numerous complete stops in breakdown lane and 1st to 4th gear pulls.
http://www.datazap.me/u/sekred/log-1432247911?log=0&data=3-4

3rd pull up moderate incline.
http://www.datazap.me/u/sekred/log-1432191421-3rd-gear-pull-uphill?log=0&data=3-4

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks, exactly what we need, real world use

 

[Siestarider]

And we Yanks need more practice reading metric data, grams/sec mass air really threw me.

 

[dyn085]

Odd situation, I have never blocked, ignore listed, anybody ever and just checked and nothing on the list so I apologize if I thought you had done this, time to ask those that be in power to fix it.

You and the rest of the Cyborg Mafia were very vocal about blocking me back when I was requesting data regarding the setup, you probably just forgot because I left the site after you banned Razorlab and deleted all of the data that we (mostly he) had created. Even though some of it was saved when it was copied/posted from the other sites, there was still a lot of testing data and discussion that had only occurred here that was lost, which was a rather substantial waste of my time. As many here can attest, I've done what I can to try and help as many people as possible, whether that's helping them get datalogs into Datazap, troubleshoot issues they're having, perfect their datalogging procedure, or analyze their data.

So again, whether you're reading this on the site or your email, do you have comparison data to substantiate the claim of having the best intake?

And we Yanks need more practice reading metric data, grams/sec mass air really threw me.

Yeah, that was rather difficult for me as well. Lots of Google was had...

 

[RAAMaudio]

Damn, I thought the issue was fixed, I will post a response about the intake when I can see what was actually posted, on this thread.

As for the rest, I only asked for fair play, from us all

 

[rodmoe]

Damn, I thought the issue was fixed, I will post a response about the intake when I can see what was actually posted, on this thread.

As for the rest, I only asked for fair play, from us all

The bossman reset your account so I am not sure what is going on now? may want to PM him about it if it continues..
All have a safe and pleasant weekend no matter if it is a holiday or not.. Happy Friday Folks ..

 

[RAAMaudio]

I wish I had before and after logs to compare but I don't and cannot produce any before logs, explained below as well as what I was asked to show about my intake design, spelled out completely for the best possible understanding of what it really is.

---------------------

Just to set the record straight.
All the data we can muster is great, some of us had not used nor understood that Vdyno is such a good tool, now we do.
The issue was attitude and respect, common curtesy goes along way in keeping the peace on a forum.
Razor was not banned, he left on his own, it was still his decision, lets keep it to the truth please.
It was very unfortunate that a lot of great info was lost to us all, it did not have to happen but some just did not want to play well in our sandbox.
Best to leave the past behind and move on, there is no gain in bringing up old wounds, let's learn from our past mistakes and make the best of what we have for us all.

--------------------------

Unfortunately my car was stock for only 293 miles and has been constantly modified since and my intake will not fit any other car so there is no way to get a comparison, I do not have a stock intake.

But, if one takes a good look at the pictures and looks at the info and can understand basic engineering principles it is quite easy to see how well it flows.

There is a possibility the 2J may work better to a degree but it is also pulling air from a low pressure area, not pressurized at speed as below, not an all season intake in some areas due to rain and snow, at least I would not use it all season if I drove my car in such weather regularly. And it is very loud, many would not want to live with that daily.

My Intake: please see notes after the list on upgrades.

1) Modified NACA duct inlet in the grill, off angled a bit but still in direct air flow, grill area is sealed very well thus creating significant pressure into the intake.
2) 3" line brake duct hose, now with less curve, more direct input to the filter housing.
3) Round filter housing, lots of race cars use round housings for good reason, less turbulence, more uniform air flow, less weight as well. I have seen round housings on hundreds of race cars up to the highest level builds, there is a reason. It has a beer tap on the opposite side, perfect drain hole.
4) AEM dry element filter with velocity stack outlet.
5) 3" Aluminum 45 degree elbow with ports as needed which are smoothed as much as possible inside.
6) 3" coupling, tubing is beveled and smoothed.
7) 3" aluminum 90 down to 3-2.5" coupler, heat wrapped tubing
8) 2.5 elbow, port included that is smoothed, inlet to elbow is beveled and smoothed, heat wrapped
9) 2.5-2" reducer to custom 2" turbo inlet, flared input, port matched to compressor housing.

Notes: Parts on hand for months before and while waiting for EFR turbo upgrade:
1) 3" 180 bend to replace 90, 3-2.5" reducer, 2.5" elbow, 2.5-2" reducer
2) Weld 180 and 45 bends, carefully matched, smoothed tubes, carefully welded to prevent slag, etc, smoothest possible joint, eliminate coupler.
3) Cone on top of filter to create better flow around it.
4) Insulate inlet hose before air box, air box, and the tubing to the turbo with fiberglass mat lined insulation.
5) Heat shield between tubing and manifold, turbo, down pipe heat wrapped and shielded as well.
6) Under tray duct to draw heat out of engine bay(already in use)

Results:
Very low intake noise
Direct cold air inlet and under pressure at moderate speed
Least restrictive and air flow correcting filter inlet and outlet
Smoothest flow path
All season use
Very low weight, very low cost to build
Just no data, again common engineering understanding dictates this is highly likely the best all around intake one could build for the car at the present and more so with the additional updates.
(one could create a more aggressive inlet design of course but it I chose a very good design that does not muss up the looks of the car, my car is not pure race car, just a very well sorted out street track car with pretty subtle looks as I prefer)

During tuning with E30, Cyborg turbo, in the 30 degree and colder weather range we were loosing spark at 6k RPM and above, this seemed to be the inlet air was just to cold at speed. I was going to reroute the inlet air from inside the engine bay for testing but had to leave on a long delayed extended trip as well as had decided to move to the EFR turbo I had always planned to run.

I have plenty of logs but for some reason cannot open them up in the ATR, just Vdyno, we were not logging air temps at the time, no need, it was cold!
I will have to look into this and also at many logs on warmer days to see what I can find.

If there is a specific value that is best to look at let me know, hopefully I have some logs showing it.

--------------------------

If this is not acceptable to some then let them show why they would believe otherwise, using common engineering principles, please

Early stage of construction:

Updated cooling system and rerouted inlet hose.

Inlet:

Updated cooling system and rerouted inlet hose, shorter, less acute bend.

Have a great weekend
Rick

 

[dyn085]

I wish I had before and after logs to compare but I don't and cannot produce any before logs, explained below as well as what I was asked to show about my intake design, spelled out completely for the best possible understanding of what it really is.

It was at this point you proved that you don't have 'the best real CAI there is'. It's an interesting design, but I can think of far better. This is a data thread, not an opinion thread, and while your opinion might be that it's the best-you have no data to support that statement.

Keep trying to advocate that Razor wasn't banned, most of us really don't care anymore because anyone that was aware of the situation as it played out knows the truth and what a great community asset (and legitimate supporting data) we lost. You guys are finally using the tools we tried getting you to use from the beginning and no longer have the power to constantly remove our legitimate questions.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am feeling a bit better, have had a very nasty bug, going out to the shop and do something productive as in working on the EFR DHM turbo install so tuning can get started so we have some data about this sweet new system I helped get the ball rolling on, something useful to myself and others

Much more fun than petty bickering

 

[dyn085]

I am feeling a bit better, have had a very nasty bug, going out to the shop and do something productive as in working on the EFR DHM turbo install so tuning can get started so we have some data about this sweet new system I helped get the ball rolling on, something useful to myself and others

Much more fun than petty bickering

This isn't 'petty bickering', and the fact that you continue to focus on that and other off-topic interests is confusing. You repeatedly try to push for doing things in the most racecar way possible, but I can't recall ever seeing a single datalog from you. That, in and of itself, is completely contrary to building a racecar because collecting and analyzing data is the singular most important aspect of building a racecar. Believe it or not, I've had conversations with other members about your constant push of rhetoric with zero data supplied for substantiation.

Let's take your intake 'using common engineering practices' as an example. Your inlet opens at an angle to incoming air, which forces air to turn direction without mechanical aid and negates the positive pressure applied to the front of the car. It then flows into dryer hose, and anyone with sense already understands that fluid will flow better through a smooth tract than something that's ribbed. From there it flows into a beer keg, something obviously not designed for airflow, with an unknown filter of unknown design and unknown flow capabilities. Finally it flows into (presumably) aluminum tubing that will flow significantly better than dryer hose but will still affect heat-transfer due to its complete lack of insulation, whether that would be paint or heat tape. Add the whole thing together and you've added distance in which the air must flow from entrance to turbo, which adds pressure against which the air must fight to flow.

Hypothetically speaking, let's assume that this added up to something better than OEM. The absolutely only way you would know is with before/after datalogging comparisons. Without that fundamental racecar approach of collection, analysis, and comparison of logged data...you are left with exactly what it is-theory and rhetoric. A surprisingly large number of people try to improve on OEM systems and think they're improving things, only to ultimately finally datalog or dyno and find out that they were wrong.

The 'unlimited plenum' intake is an example of how doing an amount of work based on 'common engineering' can do nothing for you aside from causing you to ruin perfectly good parts.

It will be good to see data collected on BT setups, but obviously they're only going to be comparable to other BT setups. Once the community gets to having multiple BT owners that are competent in datalogging, it would be good to have another thread for their comparisons.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Just love to know it all eh, keep convincing yourself and those others that are easily led

 

[dyn085]

Just love to know it all eh, keep convincing yourself and those others that are easily led

Very mature, good rebuttal. Definitely nice seeing you make a post that's not filled with stories and conjecture though. Either way, hopefully you're able to gather something legitimate to show us in here in the future.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Actually I just have better things to do than go around and around with a great wordsmith on so many hypocritical and out of context statements by someone that knows everything except it seems the difference between a lowered car, stance, what they do to undermine the inherent capabilities and safety of handling, added wear and tear, etc. Do as you wish on your cars, I just like to ensure others know the real ramifications of what it does and cannot be pretended away which any engineer should be aware of.

I find it really odd that someone would take the time to optimize the fuel they use to an incredible level of degree would then lower their car beyond the optimal level.

Have you actually designed or built anything for your cars or any car, anything of significance that is? I have not seen anything but maybe I missed so I may be off on that last bit.

I am dying to be out in the shop doing something productive and far more fun but it seems still to ill, I seldom get ill but sure caught one nasty bug, far more fun than sparring on here!

Now that I can see them I do much enjoy the great threads on fuel, datazap, etc though I have no way of telling how much is original content or just info in the public domain or perhaps as mentioned from Cobb's site. I do appreciate it being put into terms to help us understand and utilize things better, thanks for that.

Now if you could bring yourself to stop acting like an ass whenever you get the itch we can all get along much better

 

[dyn085]

Actually I just have better things to do than go around and around with a great wordsmith on so many hypocritical and out of context statements by someone that knows everything except it seems the difference between a lowered car, stance, what they do to undermine the inherent capabilities and safety of handling, added wear and tear, etc. Do as you wish on your cars, I just like to ensure others know the real ramifications of what it does and cannot be pretended away which any engineer should be aware of.

I find it really odd that someone would take the time to optimize the fuel they use to an incredible level of degree would then lower their car beyond the optimal level.

Have you actually designed or built anything for your cars or any car, anything of significance that is? I have not seen anything but maybe I missed so I may be off on that last bit.

I am dying to be out in the shop doing something productive and far more fun but it seems still to ill, I seldom get ill but sure caught one nasty bug, far more fun than sparring on here!

Now that I can see them I do much enjoy the great threads on fuel, datazap, etc though I have no way of telling how much is original content or just info in the public domain or perhaps as mentioned from Cobb's site. I do appreciate it being put into terms to help us understand and utilize things better, thanks for that.

Now if you could bring yourself to stop acting like an ass whenever you get the itch we can all get along much better

Ugh. I:

-Am not a wordsmith.
-Don't know everything.
-Advocate that people do what they want with their cars.
-Understand that not everything has to be engineered perfectly in order to be safe.
-Understand that there are different levels/needs of 'safe'.
-Haven't 'optimized my fuel', simply have good fuel nearby.
-Don't design or build things for cars.
-Do design and build things for aircraft.
-Don't share my 'original content'.
-Do share common procedures in a manner that hopefully people whom are unfamiliar can learn.
-Don't 'act like an ass', though you refuse to remove emotion from my posts so you believe otherwise.
-Do speak very directly and without emotion in the hopes that it's easier to convey my message, and for the majority of members that don't put emotion into my posts, it works very well.

There's no point in me continuing here without data or discussion that's pertinent to the thread. If you're that hell-bent on saying things to me then say it via pm.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was not going to continue this but going back over and considering everything I felt it important that others see what is really going on here.

-------------------

Intake, it seems a bit of critical info was overlooked, I used an expensive section of silicone, lined brake duct hose which is also helpful in thermal isolation and flows nearly as well as a tube And I said I was going to do further insulation, I have just been waiting for the EFR turbo install so I can complete the design and insulate everything properly.

The inlet angle is far less severe than it appears and the trimmed NACA duct aids in smoothing out the flow. I had a flared port I wanted to use but there simply was no room so it was the best I could work up and not block flow to the stock radiator which is sorely inadequate for my needs on a road race track.

I am glad you pointed out the inlet angle though as now that I have the bigger radiator and much more room to work with due to the DHM crashbar for a better inlet so I will look for one right now.

What I have at the moment is still way better than anything else being used, if you are so sure about it not being show and example please, I have not seen any. (We are not talking about a screaming loud cowl "race" intake, which a few have come to me for sound deadening advice about which can only help a little due to the high SPL involved)

------------------
Of course everyone should do as they wish to their cars I just want to help make sure they understand what some mods are detrimental to the performance, look fast and go fast are not always mutually compatible and some are simply not safe which can and often does effect more than just the owner of the car.

Though a bit off the subject this is to explain why I am so adamant about some issues.

Back in the stanced debate the goal was to distinguish between lowered, overly lowered , slammed and stanced because promoting stanced when you just had a bit overly lowered cars and you took great offense to my corrective information.

You can be lower than optimal and still have a relatively safe vehicle as long as your road conditions are decent and you are paying attention to what you may or may not hit are taken into account. Slammed is where the real danger starts to come into play, stance is just asking for trouble.

Far to many lives lost due to practically no suspension travel, bad geometry, barely any tire on the ground, big power, street racing, drivers, passengers and innocent bystanders died which has brought a lot of heat down on the rest of us more responsible car owners.

Of course if somebody wants to go all out on such things and just cruise around all the time I guess that is fine, I do not get it but OK with me.

--------------------

Again I do very much appreciate the great threads you have started with very helpful information, I just want to make sure if something is not fully covered in a particular area has not been that others get the rest of the story whether some like it or not, it is far to important to ignore. Perhaps we can sort through this is a better manner which will help us all, I am going to do my best to keep it friendly.

--------------------

Finally feeling like I can get some decent work done on the car, first good sleep in days, not hacking all night and half the day, then I can get busy with Russ on the tune and have some logs to share on the DHM EFR turbo kit

Sincerely
Rick

 

[dyn085]

Of course it is, most likely free-range and all natural, organic-grass fed as well.

Either way, there's still no data to support it being as good or better than any other intake-OEM included. I'll log some data if I ever get around to ordering the cp-e, but I just ordered the ATR software and will be running the FoST so I most likely won't be doing any hard-part changes on the FiST for a while.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I wish I could run some logs on it but as seen in the pictures I have no stock inlet above the radiator and as mentioned no stock intake, maybe a part or two but that is it.

Looking for a flared port tub with the shallowest angle bend I can fit right now.

If it was a race car I could bring in the air lower with the port in the bumper cover but I want it higher up to keep it out of water in case I even get into that situation.

-Update

Here is a perfect part, not, way to sharp of a bend, unable copy a pick from the site.

I will look at ABS pipe fittings as some have a far better sweep angle to see if I can match a port up to it and fit the 3" hose over the outlet.

 

[dyn085]

I was not going to continue this but going back over and considering everything I felt it important that others see what is really going on here.

-------------------

Intake, it seems a bit of critical info was overlooked, I used an expensive section of silicone, lined brake duct hose which is also helpful in thermal isolation and flows nearly as well as a tube And I said I was going to do further insulation, I have just been waiting for the EFR turbo install so I can complete the design and insulate everything properly.

The inlet angle is far less severe than it appears and the trimmed NACA duct aids in smoothing out the flow. I had a flared port I wanted to use but there simply was no room so it was the best I could work up and not block flow to the stock radiator which is sorely inadequate for my needs on a road race track.

I am glad you pointed out the inlet angle though as now that I have the bigger radiator and much more room to work with due to the DHM crashbar for a better inlet so I will look for one right now.

What I have at the moment is still way better than anything else being used, if you are so sure about it not being show and example please, I have not seen any. (We are not talking about a screaming loud cowl "race" intake, which a few have come to me for sound deadening advice about which can only help a little due to the high SPL involved)

------------------
Of course everyone should do as they wish to their cars I just want to help make sure they understand what some mods are detrimental to the performance, look fast and go fast are not always mutually compatible and some are simply not safe which can and often does effect more than just the owner of the car.

Though a bit off the subject this is to explain why I am so adamant about some issues.

Back in the stanced debate the goal was to distinguish between lowered, overly lowered , slammed and stanced because promoting stanced when you just had a bit overly lowered cars and you took great offense to my corrective information.

You can be lower than optimal and still have a relatively safe vehicle as long as your road conditions are decent and you are paying attention to what you may or may not hit are taken into account. Slammed is where the real danger starts to come into play, stance is just asking for trouble.

Far to many lives lost due to practically no suspension travel, bad geometry, barely any tire on the ground, big power, street racing, drivers, passengers and innocent bystanders died which has brought a lot of heat down on the rest of us more responsible car owners.

Of course if somebody wants to go all out on such things and just cruise around all the time I guess that is fine, I do not get it but OK with me.

--------------------

Again I do very much appreciate the great threads you have started with very helpful information, I just want to make sure if something is not fully covered in a particular area has not been that others get the rest of the story whether some like it or not, it is far to important to ignore. Perhaps we can sort through this is a better manner which will help us all, I am going to do my best to keep it friendly.

--------------------

Finally feeling like I can get some decent work done on the car, first good sleep in days, not hacking all night and half the day, then I can get busy with Russ on the tune and have some logs to share on the DHM EFR turbo kit

Sincerely
Rick

Holy crap dude, way to completely change your post-as always. I guess I'll just have to always quote you so that you can't just go back and completely change your post to reflect from a 'better' position. I'm not trying to blast your intake, I'm trying to illustrate the fact that you're constantly preaching racecar and theory but you never have any form of legitimate data to support it. Unless I'm wrong or forgetting, I have not ever seen you post a single datalog relating to anything, anywhere.

Let me try to make this clear and hopefully in a simple enough way for you to understand-you're the one claiming to have 'the best intake', so the burden of proof is on you-not me. You can try and discount the 2JR intake all you want, but if it's better than your contraption then it's better-there's no way around that. Maybe it's not better in NVH and maybe yours is better in that aspect, but that doesn't make it less of a solution for those that only care about having the absolute best performance due to 'using common engineering practices'.

To address your current attempt at a topic-change towards stance, I can't break it down in terms that are simple enough for you to understand-cars don't wreck themselves. Anyone that has watched the recent internet phenomenon of the C7 that crashed during straight-line acceleration should be able to attest to the fact that 1g+ of lateral grip on a 'properly setup' car is completely useless if you're an idiot driver. Far more people crash, wreck, and/or kill people from driving excessively 'because racecar' than from being lowered to 'less than optimal', and not taking the drivers into account and placing blame on them is no different than blaming a gun for killing people or spoons for making people fat. You can argue using opinion and engineering all you want, but it's no different than the complete lack of data that you have provided in a DATALOGGING thread.

For those that haven't had the opportunity to laugh at a #becauseracecar driver that can't drive recently-
[video=youtube;Wqtl7fXDKu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqtl7fXDKu4[/video]

I wish I could run some logs on it but as seen in the pictures I have no stock inlet above the radiator and as mentioned no stock intake, maybe a part or two but that is it.

Looking for a flared port tub with the shallowest angle bend I can fit right now.

If it was a race car I could bring in the air lower with the port in the bumper cover but I want it higher up to keep it out of water in case I even get into that situation.

-Update

Here is a perfect part, not, way to sharp of a bend, unable copy a pick from the site.

I will look at ABS pipe fittings as some have a far better sweep angle to see if I can match a port up to it and fit the 3" hose over the outlet.

This is all just super, you should create a thread to discuss random parts and random theory related to them. Then, under the assumption that you either know or learn how to datalog and present information, you could come back here and post it for discussion. Without some form of data to discuss, you're not doing this thread any good-especially with the fact that you're intentionally shooting off-topic in nearly every single post.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was originally going to use a flared port tube, I had one here for it but it would simply not fit due to the location of the hose and bumper beam so I had to find the best compromise which is still out in clear cold air and not at the bottom of the car.

Since I seal up everything inside the grill area to force as much air through the coolers instead of around them it will become a higher pressure area and thus the intake becomes a bit of a forced air unit which negates some of the effects of the offset NACA duct. Of course that is not how the duct is meant to be aligned but it gave me the best solution for the situation.

Now that I have more room, I am fitting the DHM parts now, as I can as have been down with a nasty bug, I can go back to a flare and a better designed one than I originally tried.

My car has gone through many changes and will always continue to do so, I have posted a ton about this but if I posted every detail, every idea, every planned change....it would be a great deal more info to post than I have done.

If I make a slight error, like slotted instead of drilled, possibly because most of the time a slot was all I could do before on other cars, sorry about that.

I during the evolution of the car I do not list everything I have done, tried, did not do, reasons why, so be it, in the end, I will challenge anybody on a road race track, anytime, and still have a very nice to drive and reliable streetable car

----------------

Since you are so keen on pointing out anything you can imagine, true, inferred, supposed, whatever I just wanted to even up the playing field a bit, you nor I know it all but something you are better at, somethings I am, somethings we can learn from each other, somethings we may never agree on.

I have been asked to just ignore your comments which I have tried to do but some are so offending or off base I will not let them go.

----------------

Want to end this silly game we are in and move on to more productive issues? I sure do, absolutely, right now would be perfect for me.

Rick

 

[dyn085]

I was originally going to use a flared port tube, I had one here for it but it would simply not fit due to the location of the hose and bumper beam so I had to find the best compromise which is still out in clear cold air and not at the bottom of the car.

Since I seal up everything inside the grill area to force as much air through the coolers instead of around them it will become a higher pressure area and thus the intake becomes a bit of a forced air unit which negates some of the effects of the offset NACA duct. Of course that is not how the duct is meant to be aligned but it game me the best solution for the situation.

Now that I have more room, I am fitting the DHM parts now, as I can as have been down with a nasty bug, I can go back to a flare and a better designed one than I originally tried.

My car has gone through many changes and will always continue to do so, I have posted a ton about this but if I posted every detail, every idea, every planned change....it would be a great deal more info to post than I have done.

If I make a slight error, like slotted instead of drilled, possibly because most of the time a slot was all I could do before on other cars, sorry about that.

I during the evolution of the car I do not list everything I have done, tried, did not do, reasons why, so be it, in the end, I will challenge anybody on a road race track, anytime, and still have a very nice to drive and reliable streetable car

----------------

Since you are so keen on pointing out anything you can imagine, true, inferred, supposed, whatever I just wanted to even up the playing field a bit, you nor I know it all but something you are better at, somethings I am, somethings we can learn from each other, somethings we may never agree on.

I have been asked to just ignore your comments which I have tried to do but some are so offending or off base I will not let them go.

----------------

Want to end this silly game we are in and move on to more productive issues? I sure do, absolutely, right now would be perfect for me.

Rick

And again, you have no data to post about anything. At best you're operating on theory and everything you state is subjective, not objective. For all you actually know, you could have made some things worse, but you won't know without carefully logged proof.

Your constant changing of posts is a perfect example of why objective data is utilized when making these sort of comparisons and having these sorts of discussions-while it is easy to argue/change an opinion, it's hard to argue/change facts.

Fwiw, the majority of all FiST owners and vehicles will never see a legitimate track, so your challenge is worthless. I've repeatedly asked you to move on and come back with legitimate data to discuss, you just seem to lack the desire to prove your concepts.

Edit: Hooray for the ability to quote.