So, you think the OEM system is terrible?

[RAAMaudio]

Sir, great pic, even greater that you and your dad are doing things together

I am all about building a system that takes up the least space, least weight, least cost but stellar performance, it might take awhile to dial in the perfect solution and you might have to have a few designs but go for it, there has to be a decent market for something like that!

---------------

All about the install, balanced gear, basics like electrical and deadening, tuning....my son and I built a Scion tC back in late 2004 when they came out that was a street, audio comp and Time Attack race car, huge project.....fully Pur Fil foam filled chassis, caged, CF/Kevlar roof, two Racetech seats and harnesses(my last time for real race seats in a street car, not fun) big wheels, tires, brakes, aero, full interior except back seat but fully carpeted, sound deadened, 265lbs lighter than stock. Second place in a national time attack race, would of won the next day but blew it up due to a bad tune. Won some sound quality audio comps by a mile......then the SPL.....

Single 15, sealed, big box so it played really low meaning it would of been louder in a smaller box, combined SQ and SPL competition but the SPL was 2 minutes on music, 138.4 db is LOUD for a single sealed 15 and it was not clipping, no distortion, beat all the SPL built vehicles except one, two of the same subs, ported, beat me by just 2db, all the really big guns blew up something or other, none could last two minutes.

The enclosure was up firing in the tire well which was hammered into a bowl shape to make it deeper and stiffer and required less glass thickness, the rest in BB plywood, layered to be just strong enough in each area, internally braced with holes in them, 2.2 cubes, 20lbs emty and solid as a rock.

The car had a great shape for coupling the energy to the front of the cabin, so does the ST

----------------------------

For this car, simple as can be, modular to take it out easily for the track but with how much weight I have removed from the rear of the car it might be best to leave it in, testing will tell for sure.

----------------------------

Great to see some real audio on here, I am into real audio, real performance far before just style and or noise.

 

[TaylorFade]

Soooo.... updates. I decided it was time. I had put it off long enough, and I hate it. But it was time to do my doors. Ugh. Doors are my least favorite thing to do, but they have to be done. So, let's get to it.

I don't know if my car is different or what, but the couple threads I've seen on door removal weren't any help at all. Anyway... there are (5) torx screws that secure the door card. They're all the same bit and you can do these in any order you want.

Remove this little plastic piece behind the door handle. Pry it out back to front. There is a screw behind there.

Make sure you're using these sort of plastic tools. They're relatively cheap and you can pick up a set from Harbor Freight. Pry the door handle cover up. It doesn't take much force so if it's not coming, figure out why. There will be two more screws behind here. Top and bottom. (Note: You can see the window controls askew in this pic. You DO NOT have to remove them to get the door card off)

Now these little buggers are hidden. Well... they're not hidden, but you might not know they're there. There are two small screws at the edge of the door card. They have little covers on them that you can pry up with a fingernail.

That's it for screws. Just grab an edge and pop out the clips around the panel. It's easy to start at the bottom front because you can yank on the door pocket there. Once you get it loose, you will have to unclip all the clips from the power windows and mirrors. What I did with the door handle was pop it out from behind and slip it back through its own hole.

Here it is nekkid. And let me take this time to say... Thank you, Ford!!! You guys have no idea how stoked I was to see that skin on the door. A MAJOR part of properly treating doors is sealing them up. And now, I don't have to. Yay! That saves me a ton of time and material.

 

[TaylorFade]

With the factory driver out, I decided to run the Thiele-Small parameters to see what we're working with.

For those of you who know what you're looking at...

For those of you who don't... the high points here are the Fs, the Qts and the sensitivity.

Fs- this is actually pretty decent. And while this number isn't the only indicator of a speaker's low frequency extension capabilities... distortion is highest at Fs. So, the lower you go past Fs, the worse a speaker sounds. Those of you who hate the stock system, this is probably what you're hearing. Distortion from low frequencies.

Qts- This is important because of the way the speaker is mounted. Our install is what is known as "infinite baffle". Basically that means it's a giant sealed box where all we're doing is separating the front wave from the rear. A perfect system 'Q' is .707 (arguably). Some prefer .5 (critically damped) and other prefer a 'Q' of 1 (under damped). But for the sake of argument, let's settle on .7. The stock one is .67; and since we have a very large "box" (the door), the enclosure will not affect the system 'Q' as long as it's ~ 4x the Vas. This is good.

And finally sensitivity- this is important for those of you who want to upgrade the speakers without adding an amp. If you don't get a new driver with this sensitivity or higher, your output will be less than the stock system and you may end up driving the already meager power into clipping to make up for it.

So... TL;DR... for new speakers, look for a low Fs (< 100hz), a Qts above .5 and sensitivity of at least 90db (1w/1m).

Pics of the factory driver.

 

[TaylorFade]

My "team" is coming out with a new component set so I got a set of prototypes to evaluate and see if they need any changes or if they're good as is or whatever.

Ampere Audio. They're super nice.

Since the factory speaker and mount is all one piece, it wasn't worth the trouble to try to reuse it. I just fabbed new mounting rings- which is also necessary because 1- the hole is too big and 2- we need the mounting depth.

This is a pic of inside the door. What you're seeing is a large piece of deadener. Thanks again, Ford. I added a few tiles back there anyway, but it's probably not totally necessary.

Here I've mounted the new speaker baffle/ring and added a few choice pieces of deadener to mitigate panel resonance. I added some to the inside of the panel too. You will also notice the fiberglass batting through the hole there. There are a ton of products on the market for this- which is to absorb the rear wave of the speaker. But nothing works as well as regular ol' fiberglass. I just made a "bag" for it out of 1mil drop cloth so that it doesn't get wet. Then I taped it against the outer skin so that it doesn't interfere with the window coming down (and/or get ripped). You do NOT want to get that shit wet.

Pic of the "bags" stolen from my buddy.

I used butyl rope to decouple the mounting ring from the panel and CCF as a gasket/decoupler for the speaker. It's all mounted up and ready to rock. My fab skills leave a little something to be desired, but you get the idea.

 

[TaylorFade]

With the woofer taken care of, I turned my attention to the tweeter. We have very few options that fit into the tiny factory spot, but these go like they were made for it. I just took them out of their housing (which isn't an option for most).

Here's the factory one out of the hole. It's press fit in with a few little tabs.

And the new Ampere tweet in place. I used a few dabs of hot glue to secure it.

And now... my least favorite thing about car audio. Ever. Running new wires to the door. UGH! I hate it. This shit took me an hour. I shit you not. But... now I have a dedicated lead for the tweeter which will allow me to run "active".

 

[TaylorFade]

Aaaaaaand... the moment of truth. Listening to it. Just as an A/B comparison, I took an RTA before and after. You'll recognize the top one from the OP. The bottom one is the new speakers. Now... RTA is only part of the story, but it's a good way to *see* what you're hearing.

Disregard the lowest octave. The top one I had a ported box. Yesterday I was running a sealed box so I'm missing some of the lower registers. What *is* important here is how the midbass region got filled out very nicely. AND the hump ~ 4khz is all but gone. Because the factory woofers run full range, this is cone breakup that's common from a 6.5" woofer without a phase plug like my new ones. Your best bet is to be able to crossover below that. Or use a phase plug. Or both.

Like I said... RTA is only part of the story. Subjectively... they're lovely. Vocals are much more realistic. Midbass has some real "snap". There are details and subtleties in the music that you're just not going to get from the stock stuff. Ampere has a winner here. I may see if he can get the Fs down on them at all, but overall... great set.

 

[Sourskittle]

Lol. A lot of people would rather just drop a car off and have parts installed, dyno'd/tuned, and pay and leave for engine performance. And most have a hard time picking up the goods and bads of a good/ bad tune. Well... This is how I feel about car audio, lol. I worked at best buy for a year installing car audio, then at a custom shop for a year installing car audio, since I left it 14 years ago, I've had nothing but stock stereos. Not that I don't want awesome sound, you guys are just taking all this stuff to the next level, and ITS AWESOME TO WATCH AND SEE. For me, I'd rather drop the car off and pay though, lol. Its a lot of work. I'm glad someone is looking to all this stuff.

I'm pretty happy with the stock radio when i do turn it on. But it would be cool go hear a REAL system in a fiesta.

My idea of a "stereo mod" right now would be removing it for weight saving, lol. But your stuff looks great to me. I actually didn't think aftermarket stereos were going to be an option in this car.

 

[TaylorFade]

Lol. A lot of people would rather just drop a car off and have parts installed, dyno'd/tuned, and pay and leave for engine performance. And most have a hard time picking up the goods and bads of a good/ bad tune. Well... This is how I feel about car audio, lol. I worked at best buy for a year installing car audio, then at a custom shop for a year installing car audio, since I left it 14 years ago, I've had nothing but stock stereos. Not that I don't want awesome sound, you guys are just taking all this stuff to the next level, and ITS AWESOME TO WATCH AND SEE. For me, I'd rather drop the car off and pay though, lol. Its a lot of work. I'm glad someone is looking to all this stuff.

I'm pretty happy with the stock radio when i do turn it on. But it would be cool go hear a REAL system in a fiesta.

My idea of a "stereo mod" right now would be removing it for weight saving, lol. But your stuff looks great to me. I actually didn't think aftermarket stereos were going to be an option in this car.

They sure don't make it easy! It's been a bit of a fight. Lol. But it's coming along.

There's an old saying... "Sit in a barber shop long enough and you're gonna get your hair cut."

Well... that's what's happening spending more time on here. I'd been fighting the mod bug, but it's definitely biting. And I may be needing some turbo work here soon, man.

My horsepower upgrades will probably be slower than most though, because I have another car to waste money on AND I refuse to go into debt for car parts. The system in my CRX cost about triple what I paid for the car. As a matter of fact... the alternator in the sum'bish cost as much as the car did. I shit you not. Lol. But... it wins lots of trophies and still gets 50mpg so it's fun. Seen here with my latest world titles (not pictured are the two new world records I set).

 

[iso100]

That's a huge sub! Here I was thinking the Infinity Basslink that's in my other car would be too big for the Fiesta...

 

[RAAMaudio]

Great work

I agree about the design under the door panel, be glad you did not take on off and have the window fall off the tracks, we did that on my daughters 06 Mazda, it was a pain to get it back together.....! My Duramax had two huge holes, thin foam, I ended up using two big sections of 6mm Alumalite on each door and lots of deadening needed on the outer skin, door panels as well and we had to run new speaker wires, big power wires and control wires into the doors for the window control modules for the alarm, it was a huge pain.

Glad not much deadening is needed as well, usually I would run some aluminum channels on the outside skin, held on with window glasing double sided tape, then matted, to really stiffen up the skin behind the speakers, I might still do it as it is very little added weight.

The ST is going to be easy, thanks for posting it up

----------------

Thanks for testing and showing the TS parameters, very helpful, makes sense the sensitivity the stock speakers have with the tiny chip amp powering them.

The QTS is very low on the PE speakers I bought which will cause more tuning issues but I have worked around it before, will have to use a processor but already planned on it. The TM 6.5 drivers you let me know about are even lower yet, kind of surprised for a car audio driver.

 

[RAAMaudio]

With this info I am going to search for really good low cost drivers I can recommend to members here, ones with little cone breakup on the high end or a low cost effective and simple crossover for the mids and tweets.


I will do a test with door tweeters as well, perhaps not so bad on this car after all, I have only heard one I ever liked and he won a championship with it so it can work, pretty rare though, it would be great for owners here to so some simple deadening and upgrade the speakers and make the system far better.

Thanks for your work on this

 

[Omega112]

I posted this here, http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/3394-Installed-new-tweeters, but I installed JBL GTO18T tweeters in the stock locations and the system sounds much better. You can turn the volume up and enjoy what you hear as well as have much more definition at low volumes.

The kit comes with the tweeters, inline crossovers, and a large array of mounting options.

I highly recommend them, or at the very least try some other tweeter options, you wont regret it if you feel you want some more out of the stock system.

Amazon Link

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027RC7XM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Dr. Apex]

You guys mentioned passive radiators, I'm almost finished with mine as Raam know in speaking with him. Here's where to get them: http://earthquakesound.com/index.php/en/browse-products/category/passive-radiators

These things are great quality, tunable, inexpensive, light and made specifically for automotive applications. My setup is almost done, as soon as it is I'll do a thread on my build.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have been out of the audio comp and other aspect of car audio for some years, just do my own systems, I did produce some nice ultra low weight Vette systems for a couple of years, still have some parts and still get asked once in awhile for them though do not list them anywhere.

Anyway, I have not seen PR used in cars much but those look like great units and tuned for a car.

I have seen them used in home audio for a very very long time, cool to see a car version one made, making my think about trying one

 

[RAAMaudio]

How well would it work with that flat 12?

 

[Dr. Apex]

Flat 12?

 

[TaylorFade]

That SLAPS looks like a great piece. I ran the design by my sub team owner and he thinks the dual opposing surrounds and spiderless design is a bit of marketing hype, but they look like nice pieces. A well designed spider'd setup would have more linear throw as the surround would be the limiting factor at that point. And in my experience, the surround stretch is much more mechanical than spider strain.

But that's neither here nor there.

That PR would work really well for the SI BM, Rick. And you could get away with only one of them because the displacement of the PR is larger than that of the BM.

 

[IronMaiden]

When replacing the rear door speakers: Is it easier to replace them with two-way speakers rather than components considering the tweeters are mounted on top of the mid-bass anyway?

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks

I am going to contact SI soon and talk about using their sub in a flipped spare tire enclosure, if they will license me to ship them to our fellow enthusiasts, drop shipped would be even better then I can have the enclosures made and shipped directly as well

---------------

Coax for the rear doors would be the way to go.

I highly recommend putting in the best front speakers you can afford and then playing them louder than the rears.

DIY, home audio, raw speakers, not car audio branded, for the fronts, and rears, can get you much better quality in most cases

 

[TaylorFade]

When replacing the rear door speakers: Is it easier to replace them with two-way speakers rather than components considering the tweeters are mounted on top of the mid-bass anyway?

Unless you're super concerned with rear passengers being able to hear the music, I wouldn't even bother with the rears. Spend that money on a bit better fronts.

Or, if you're like some and just prefer the "surround sound" sound.... coax is the way to go. I personally prefer all of the sound coming from in front of me (like you're at a concert). In very high level SQ cars, 99% of them don't have "rear fill". And if they do, it's done using a lot of processing to simulate the reflections you would hear at a live show and very rarely is anything over ~ 3khz used.

Or in some cases, using them for true rears like you would in a home theater. But since we can't really replace our radios with video units (yet), this doesn't really apply to us.