So, you think the OEM system is terrible?

[RAAMaudio]

Taylor, have you given more thought to a processor? Sure I mentioned it but I have two of the PPI 88R units, they can be had at just over $200, I have not used one yet but hope it will sound great and be "easy" to tune. When I get time to finish my install I will test it and see if I want to have it as an option for a complete audio package I want to develop for the car.

Thanks for the feedback on the LC2i, to bad it is not quite enough but does help, I hoped it did more than it does so I could recommend it, would you still do so or look for other options?

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reracer,
Sounds like a great plan on the sub install

Thanks
Rick

 

[reracer]

L

I know that sub.My buddy had a pair in his truck and they do very well for being both a shallow mount and reasonably priced. I think you will enjoy it.

As for the EQ... our meager EQ only boosts ~ 40hz-50hz or so (judging from my measurements). What I meant by *not* boosting it, was in reference to your door speakers not needing bass blockers. Having it at "flat" or "0" in the middle is fine. It's when you boost it past that- that you will run into trouble with the door speakers (distortion and what not). Since the sub will have amplification and is also larger, it will be able to overcome any cutting you do. Especially with a little more control from the Lc2i.

And speaking of the LC2i, since you reminded me about it, I went ahead and ordered one for myself and got it in the car this weekend. It does "boost" the bass, but it doesn't do as much as I'd hoped as far as adding lost information below 40hz. Oh well. It's better than an el cheapo with no control.

Ok, so zero out the bass at the HU, and ad in the bass with the LC2i and the EQ on the sub amp, right?

 

[TaylorFade]

Taylor, have you given more thought to a processor? Sure I mentioned it but I have two of the PPI 88R units, they can be had at just over $200, I have not used one yet but hope it will sound great and be "easy" to tune. When I get time to finish my install I will test it and see if I want to have it as an option for a complete audio package I want to develop for the car.

Thanks for the feedback on the LC2i, to bad it is not quite enough but does help, I hoped it did more than it does so I could recommend it, would you still do so or look for other options?

---------

reracer,
Sounds like a great plan on the sub install

Thanks
Rick

I am being stubborn about a processor for no good reason other than I was desperately trying to stay in "Intro" SQ in my competition class. It's the only class that requires stock locations for the speakers and no processors are allowed. There are also requirements in the other classes I wasn't quite ready to conform to yet. But... I may just cave and get one. The next class up has unlimited SPL in addition to your SQ score AND allows the removal of the spare tire, so I may just run that one. Sounds more fun.

As for which one... I've convinced my team owner to develop and bring in a prototype processor. It will be very OEM friendly with active OEM signal restoration similar to the Zapco DSP Z8. I am going to be diligent about keeping the price reasonable, but it will still come in over the PPi 88r.

The PPi looks like a lovely low cost unit and seems to be OEM integration friendly. The SoundStream Harmony is the sister unit to that one so that's another option for people looking. Now that I think about it, if you're still willing... I may take you up on your offer to sell one just so I can help with the review.

I still like the LC2i. It's quiet and a quality piece. It's only a couple bucks more than a pair of simple LOC and there is *some* active signal processing. Perhaps I was just hoping for too much from a $70-80 unit. The "Great Turn On" circuit is also a very nice feature since you don't need to run a dedicated remote wire. And it takes 2 channel input and gives 4 channel output. It should make for simplified installs for those in the community that don't want to step up to a full blown processor.

 

[TaylorFade]

L

Ok, so zero out the bass at the HU, and ad in the bass with the LC2i and the EQ on the sub amp, right?

Yep. You will have to fiddle with the Accubass and threshold on the LC2i for a bit to get the levels right, but that sounds like a plan.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am very interested in the processor your team owner is going to bring out, any timeline on it you can post?

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I have not looked into comp classes for quite some time, I do like the integration of SQ and SPL. There was a start up organization in NoCal that I attended three comps where the SPL followed the SQ, it was two minutes on music which to me makes far more sense than a ton burp as it is still music based and much harder to do. I was able to beat all the big SPL guys because they kept blowing up, my 138.4 db no distortion two minute average with a single sealed Arc 15 sub was quite a substantial score, the only one to beat me was two of the same subs, ported, twice the power, by 2db. My amp, sub and enclosure weighed under 45lbs.

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I might have to get the LC2i to test as well as working towards offering a complete drop in system with probably 2-3 levels to pick from.

I need to get lined up with a manf to be able ship systems since I will no longer have an address to work from where I could be an Arc Audio dealer. Still waiting for Eric Stevens to come out with his new gear, etc......


I an let one of the PPI's go, I have other plans for my truck now so only need one.

Thanks
Rick

 

[reracer]

So, do you guys polyfill your sealed boxes?

 

[TaylorFade]

I am very interested in the processor your team owner is going to bring out, any timeline on it you can post?

Thanks
Rick

Should be about a month out. To save on shipping, it's coming in with the next large shipment of amps and subs. I got a pair of prototypes for the time being. After I get it in and play with it, I might need another opinion on it if you're game and set up for it.

So, do you guys polyfill your sealed boxes?

It depends.

Polyfill or other absorptive materials basically "tricks" the sub into thinking it's in a larger box than it is. Up to ~ 40%. This will increase your low end extension in a box that may be too small for the sub and can cut down on box size. It also absorbs rear waves and helps keep the cone under control from not having to fight with the rear wave bouncing back into the cone.

Typically you want the system 'Q' of your sub/box to be between .577 (critically damped Bessel) and underdamped Qtc = 1. With .707 being maximally flat Butterworth.

What's all that hooey mean? Each alignment has a specific sound. Higher Q systems will be "tighter", more punchy. Lower Q will have "more" bass but will be slower. Most will agree that .707 is the best compromise. Point being that polyfill can lower your Qtc to suit your taste. If your Qtc is too high and the bass is peaky, you can fill and get it down. But only to a point. It's not magic.

The point of diminishing returns is ~ 1.4lbs per cubic foot.

 

[TaylorFade]

Little update on my system...

Since I'm being hard headed about a processor and want to stay in a class that only allows analog EQ *and* 9 bands or less, I've been desperately trying to find a budget friendly parametric EQ. My first choice was the Zapco ASP-Q1. But at $500/ea and needing two of them (one for each side)... it wasn't difficult to discard that option.

So I ran across this little beauty. This is the Precision Power E.7. It's 7 bands of para-graphic EQ with a subwoofer bandpass crossover and level control. It also has a DC voltage display for those who like to watch that.

One really awesome feature of this EQ is that you can adjust the frequency. And the digital display tells you the frequency you're adjusting! This may not mean much to you guys, but this is some seriously cool shit for ~ 80-100 bucks.

The couple gripes I have with it are that it only accepts RCA inputs so you're still going to need LOC's. The subbass EQ only goes down to 40hz. And the sum'bish is bright as shit. Other than that... this thing is a serious win for the money.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Let me know when the processor comes in and approx cost, etc.....at least I want to know as much as I can about it then I can tell if I want to try one

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I want everything in bass, very accurate, punchy at times, and blended in perfect as well as loud at times.......one really good sub if on a weight budget and plenty of power, sealed box usually right near manf spec so not to big, seems I have not had to use poly in a very long time.

It worked great in the lower A pillars in my Tacoma that had the 7" Rainbow Reference mids with an opening into the pillar on the back side of them, they played quite low that way though I cut them off a bit higher as had dual midbass drivers in the doors. Later just PE RS midbasses in the kicks and nothing in the doors, once broken in and tuned they did very well.

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That PPI looks like the ticket for your needs buddy!

I would imagine the right resistor inline with the LEDs would fix the brightness issue but if no room to do that perhaps some spray on tint would suffice.

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I have had some good luck with analog processors when I got lucky and had the bands close enough to the freqs I needed to tweak but parametric is far better. I used to have several Eclipse 8443 and 8053 HU's and used them for years in my simpler systems, loved them, just not modern enough now.

My best install, years ago now, not quite finished install and not fully tuned on the review which was done in a noisy parking garage.....from a 7 page article in Mobile Entertainment Magazine.

http://www.raamaudio.com/1996-toyota-tacoma

I did not have the time to finish the custom molded console cover and mini Recaro seats and arm rest to fit over the subs and hide the amps. I built that install in my back yard, no garage even.

 

[RAAMaudio]

PPI E.7 on Ebay for $74.95 shipped!

http://www.raamaudio.com/1996-toyota-tacoma

If it had a bandpass crossover it could be perfect with this amp for a very simple system.

I have one of those amps and two of the 1100.1 and one of the 600.4, all brand new, I had one of the 1100.6 which has a band pass crossover built in, I could sell the 1100.5 and get the 1100.6 again........hmmmmm or just use the PPI 88R processor for far more tuning capability but I do like simple setups when I can make them work.

http://www.arcaudio.com/c/amplifiers_xdi-v2-amplifiers

Dually gets a 600.4 for Arc Black Line mids and tweets, 1100.1 for Arc Black Line 12 under the dash in the console, very stealthy install, amps in console as well.

Trailer has an 1100.1 for another Arc BL 12 under the stairs, Harmon Kardon Blu Ray receiver, KEF line array speakers, 50" smart TV.

ST, still finalizing but for now 1100.5, PPI 88R, Vifa .75 tweeters in pillars and Dayton Esoteric mids in doors. Sub is still being determined as well as possible mids change.

It will be fun demoing 3 different systems as we travel

 

[IronMaiden]

Ok, so Jason at Autotoys in Ontario, CA. just finished with the upgrade. Rewired the the power going to the amps with 8 gauge, installed the 6 1/2" coax Kickers in all four doors (of which he informed me and showed me that I could have gone with 8" door speakers based on the hole in the door and the depth available....wish I had known that before purchasing speakers online), installed the amp running the door speakers, and ran all that through the LC7i audiocontrol w/bass adjust. I don't care what anyone says about the OEM system being great, the new setup sounds HOLY CRAP AWESOME compared to the original.

 

[TaylorFade]

Ok, so Jason at Autotoys in Ontario, CA. just finished with the upgrade. Rewired the the power going to the amps with 8 gauge, installed the 6 1/2" coax Kickers in all four doors (of which he informed me and showed me that I could have gone with 8" door speakers based on the hole in the door and the depth available....wish I had known that before purchasing speakers online), installed the amp running the door speakers, and ran all that through the LC7i audiocontrol w/bass adjust. I don't care what anyone says about the OEM system being great, the new setup sounds HOLY CRAP AWESOME compared to the original.

Awesome. Glad you're enjoying the new system.

A note on 8's in the doors... it would be very difficult for an 8" woofer to play high enough to mate with a tweeter in the stock locations so it's probably not the best choice anyway. And I can't think of any decent 8" coaxials off the top of my head.

I know my 6.5's on good power are beating the ever lovin snot out of my door panels. 8's would be uncontrollable without serious weight and/or pods of some sort.