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Transmission Blow'd Up on Track

Ford SVT & ST

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#41
Thanks guys! I was asking if Clarke supplies BETTER PARTS therefore charging higher prices. If they are using FORD PARTS and inspecting/installing with more care, proper torque specs and polishing of parts to remove all burrs and imperfections then their LABOR Charge should be higher but not the Parts prices. If they have better gears and internals then that explains the higher parts cost. IE Forged vs. Cast components. Magnesium for lighter reciprocating mass and therefore less NVH inside of the transmission.

But our friend CSM bought a FORD Trani. therefore we will put a pin in this discussion.
Alot of GREAT INPUT HERE!!!
 


CSM

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#42
to be clear, I bought the ford transmission because it was cheap at the time and I knew I was going to be selling the car soon anyways. If I had planned to keep it and run more power/torque through it, I would have absolutely upgraded. I don't think these transmissions are meant to handle gobs of torque for many miles.
 


OP
cidsamuth
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Thread Starter #43
New transmission picked up today. 4.3 final drive kit comes tomorrow. I need to pull the old trans this weekend, and everything to the shop on Monday for install of the 4.3 and swap of the Wavetrac.

If anyone is considering a new OEM, it comes with axle seals and a new slave.
 


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Fusion Works

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#44
Is it actually new? I don't understand why Ferd wants your old transmission back if they are selling you a completely new unit.

Please ask your installer to take pics of the inside of the "new" transmission.
 


Fusion Works

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#45
BTW, if you follow the Ford Manual, you will need a new 3rd gear when changing to the 4.3 final as you have to cut the 3rd gear off the counter shaft. If you chose not to cut it off, it will take a 50ton press to shear the snap ring that holds that gear stack together on the shaft. (learned it the hard way)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)
 


Dialcaliper

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#46
I'm new here and to Turbo 3 and 4 cyl. motors. Ask Mr. Clarke what internal guts makes their transmission so much superior to the FORD OEM with a LSD. Is it the Metallurgy they use in the gears? is it the clutch material? the # of splines on the output shaft? Helical cut gears? Magnesium for lighter weight and stronger gears? COOLING?

Since you are running a track car HARD EVERY DAY that you are on the track, I don't think u are what FORD Engineers had in mind with the BEAN COUNTERS controlling cost on an Entry Level Street/Sport Tuned car.

Please let us know what Colby Clarke has to say. We are all living vicariously through ur track adventures.
Back from Mitsubishi/DSM days, the things I’m aware that make a custom rebuilt transmission better than the stock one are down to a few things, a lot of which come from seeing where customer transmissions have failed.

- Biggest difference in longevity is the care of a builder that meticulously adjusts and reshims gear backlash to the tight end of the service spec, sometimes tighter if they find it works on higher powered cars with thicker lubricants. The biggest transmission and diff long term killer is loose backlash, followed by too-tight backlash.

- Second difference is identifying the weakest points in the transmission through experience, and if possible, adjusting clearances, making small modifications, or replacing things like OEM bearings and bushings and other wear parts with higher quality ones (often from bearing suppliers like SKF, Torrington, etc)

- Lastly sometimes swapping out with parts from other similar transmissions from different car models (and makes). Ours is a Getrag supplied gearbox like a lot of other OEMs use (not just Ford), and occasionally other similar but beefed up parts are used elsewhere in other Getrags. I don’t know if any builders that handle our boxes have really experimented that much, as it’s not a common transmission, and most motorsports applications that use IB6’s either use them stock, convert to dog boxes or replace them with sequentials. Cars that see a lot of drag racing rebuilds and subsequent explosions (DSMs, Hondas, etc) will have accumulated more of these bits of knowledge.

Besides shot-peening and cryotreating, some builders have experimented with micropolishing gears and sometimes coatings (moly, tungsten disulfide/Microblue or DLC), but none of those come cheap.
 


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cidsamuth
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Thread Starter #48
BTW, if you follow the Ford Manual, you will need a new 3rd gear when changing to the 4.3 final as you have to cut the 3rd gear off the counter shaft. If you chose not to cut it off, it will take a 50ton press to shear the snap ring that holds that gear stack together on the shaft. (learned it the hard way)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)
Great info. I will ask the shop doing the work about this. I appreciate that - might save me some time.

Yes, it’s new (not remanufactured). I assume they have a core because they repurpose the case.

I’ll def ask for the pictures.
 


kevinatfms

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#49
Transmission from Ford is brand new. Not a reman part number from Motorcraft. Ford takes the core back to rebuild in future under the Motorcraft remanufactured line.

Ford OE - C1BZ-7002-C and is the final iteration of the IB6 transmission(C). The C1BZ-7002-B was updated sometime in the 2017 model year. No idea on the updates performed.

Motorcraft Remanufactured is not yet available per the parts database. I assume they will start rebuilding cores soon enough and issue a part number.

FWIW, there is no way to make the transmission stronger at this time. Either need to increase surface area on each gear or improve the metal compounds used for increased strength. WPC treatment and shot peening may increase the fatigue strength of the gearset but not the ultimate torque capacity. So it may increase the time to failure but not eliminate the failure.

Also, most transmissions used in most racing series are not the OE style transmission unless its absolutely required. Even if the OE transmission is required like in the Michelin Pilot Challenge TCA class, manufacturers are allowed to strengthen parts...IE HPD's Civic Si FE1 in TCA uses a high strength 4th gear and higher strength LSD.
 


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cidsamuth
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Thread Starter #50
And the carnage. Without being able to know for sure, the theory is that a 4th gear tooth gave up the ghost and took out the rest.

Would make sense, given I was in 4th and it suddenly felt like I went to neutral. 3rd grabbed for a bit, and then it felt like neutral. Then, the crunchy noises …
 


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kevinatfms

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#52
FWIW, if im looking at this correctly, 4th gear is the chewed up gears on the main/counter shafts.
ib6 gearset counter shaft.jpg
ib6 gearset Input shaft.jpg
 


OP
cidsamuth
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Thread Starter #54
BTW, if you follow the Ford Manual, you will need a new 3rd gear when changing to the 4.3 final as you have to cut the 3rd gear off the counter shaft. If you chose not to cut it off, it will take a 50ton press to shear the snap ring that holds that gear stack together on the shaft. (learned it the hard way)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/part...el=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=(6201;13221;13480)
With both the old and new units cracked open, the shop has definitely come into some challenges with the 4.3 upgrade. They claim it’s not the exact issue you mention (I literally read your post to them), but I have to wonder.

They have outsourced it to a local transmission shop to try and get the gears off. Allegedly, there is someone there with experience doing it. The delay is unfortunate, but it is what it is.
 


Fusion Works

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#57
I am not sure. When I installed my Coolerwerx back in December I was working on five different projects and didn’t drive the till last Monday. In all that time I forgot to adjust the little dog bones that connect the stick to the cable pivots. They got all out of whack over the weekend and the trans would get stuck in gear or lock out of gears.
Once I realized what was happening I got off track and went back to the trailer. By that point gears were missing. I tried adjusting in the paddock but now there is a TON of noise in the trans when I let out on the clutch to go in gear and I can’t reliably get some gears. When I do they want to grind going in or hang coming out. Currently this is on me. Trans needs to come out.
 


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cidsamuth
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Thread Starter #59
I am not sure. When I installed my Coolerwerx back in December I was working on five different projects and didn’t drive the till last Monday. In all that time I forgot to adjust the little dog bones that connect the stick to the cable pivots. They got all out of whack over the weekend and the trans would get stuck in gear or lock out of gears.
Once I realized what was happening I got off track and went back to the trailer. By that point gears were missing. I tried adjusting in the paddock but now there is a TON of noise in the trans when I let out on the clutch to go in gear and I can’t reliably get some gears. When I do they want to grind going in or hang coming out. Currently this is on me. Trans needs to come out.
Sorry to read this. I really hate pulling these transmissions. Let us know what you find out.
 


Woods247

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#60
Sorry to read this. I really hate pulling these transmissions. Let us know what you find out.
It is a pain isn’t it?! My new OEM slave was defective so we had to drop it and install another. So far so good. I have several hundred miles and a trackday on the new trans with the Wavetrac and LOVE it. Wish I’d known new OEM transmissions were available from Ford. I’d definitely have gone that route to save coin. My stock trans wasn’t an issue until I shock loaded it by not lifting the throttle while one wheel was airborne and broke it. Totally on me. Thankfully that’ll never happen again with the Wavetrac. It’s so much better than my MFactory. The additional grip is unreal.
 


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